First of all, I just want to remind you that we are going over the fiscal cliff. There is no middle ground between the GOP and Dems. But let’s assume Obama will get his way and raise taxes on “the rich” from 36% to 39%. Do you know how much revenue he will raise?
Answer: $90 billion per annum
Are you aware how much deficit spending Obama is partaking in on an annual basis?
Answer: $1.3 trillion per annum
Am I missing something here? How the fuck is the problem “the rich?”
THESE ASSHOLES NEED TO SPEND LESS, making cuts across the board–otherwise the game is over. Aside from raising tax rates, the democrats want to eliminate write offs for mortgage interest and even tap into pension/IRA’s/401k plans.
Who exactly is going to be hurt by these stupid policies? Are the people building those fancy mansions all billionaires? Is the guy laying tile in that $3 million home down the block a fucking billionaire?
Believe what you want, but these tax hikes will be CATASTROPHIC for the markets and the overall economy. The Bush tax cuts should be permanent, period. We haven’t had a Federal tax cut in over 10 fucking years. We are a heavily taxed nation, in every facet of life. Yet, somehow, someway, the fucktards in DC have invoked class warfare tactics, not to “raise revenue,” but to punish success.
Thus far, the government have been horrendous stewards of American capital. Agree or disagree? If Congress was managing your money in the private sector, you’d fire them. With that in mind, why in the world should we “bail them out” by accepting higher taxes? They are conducting one giant fucking ponzi scheme, feeding into big government to support their power base. Now that they’ve hit a wall, unable to keep the ponzi scheme going without new “revenue”, we’re supposed to just sit here like fucking dogs and take it?
Message to Congress: fuck you.
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Agree.
If a family could make an extra 5k a year yet continued to spend well over the amount they were pulling in, they would be on the fast track to financial ruin.
Multiply that x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and that is a perfectly reasonable “solution”.
When the financial crisis hit in Sept. ’08 Bush raised deficit spending in response to that event. Obama is keeping spending at that level forever or raising it more. As Rahm Emanuel said, “never let a crisis go to waste.”
Agreed, but the spending cuts necessary to really make a difference will enrage the Walmart five doller waffle maker crowd. They are the New Face of America.
Then we are destined for the trash bin.
Yes, and the trash bin will be made in China.
classic
The noise from DC is irrelevant hot air from professional wind bags. The cliff is being used. Don’t you be used too.
Wrong again. We are going over it.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-ten-worst-members-of-the-worst-congress-ever-20120112
AAANNND…
I’m done reading. I’m 6 in an they’re basically just bitching about Republicans. One Democrat who’s actually been indicted for fraud is sitting behind the guy who doesn’t like illegal immigration?
Thanks Rolling Stones, for that wonderful piece of mulch.
history will prove that the 401k plan will be the biggest scam in us history..one stroke of the pen and that money gets taxed at whatever rate the government wants to tax it
poof
What wonderful “revenue” they can raise.
If they touch my Roth -> SWHC
Look for me in the papers.
Taxed? Try nationalization. I can easily envision what will then be practically worthless stocks being swapped for treasury bonds. At a small premium, the people love a bargain.
The idea that everyone could fund their retirements via stock purchases was doomed at inception. Stocks were not invented for such purposes.
“We are a heavily taxed nation, in every facet of life”
Not true (at least among developed countries):
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/international.cfm
LOL.
you are a funny man
I wonder if those countries get to enjoy 10% state taxes, 2% taxes on their fucking homes, 8% sales tax and a fucking toll every 5 miles on the highway.
Jesse: fuck you too.
Are you kidding? Sales tax in most European countries is around 19%.
Tax on Gas is around 50%
You think you´re the only one paying taxes on homes???
fuck you very much…
Hang on a second, are you making an argument for us to follow a European fiscal system?
America is big. We require big cars and gasoline has never been heavily taxed here. Stupid example.
Anything you say, clamoring for HIGHER taxes, losing all validity because the money will only be wasted on reckless spending.
No I´m not making argument at all to follow the European tax system. I think taxes are too high in Europe. From every Euro I make 50 cents are taxed away through direct or indirect taxes.
My only argument is that the U.S is not has heavily taxed as you might think if compared to other countries.
I am paying 50% of my income in taxes already, after state and home taxes.
My income tax alone is 45%
your not paying enough, devil dog says you must pay 75%, and then 10% on top of that because you own IBANKCoin
Even if they do something to avoid the “fiscal cliff” now, we are going to soar over it at some point in the not too distant future.
It’s simple math.
check Israel and see us is awesome next to it (by tax means)
We are the champions. My country is number one on that list. I pay 55% tax of all income. I pay 25% VAT for my food.180% VAT for my car. And I pay more than 8$ for a gallon of fuel for my car.
Beat that suckers!
Hello Copenhagen, delightful city.
The heavily taxed countries in Europe are the MOST expensive. Yes, in places like Copenhagen and Stockholm a simple coffee and piece of bread comes out to over $10.
New York prices are coming to a small town in America near you.
Jesse, you fail to mention that Europeans, for example, receive heavily subsidized schooling (often free university studies), free healthcare (which obviously isn’t free) and a whole host of other services that we pay out the nose for here.
Point being, they get something for their elevated tax rates. I do not have a state sponsored nanny to watch my children when I have the sniffles nor did I get a free college education. On the contrary, I paid a fucking king’s ransom for my education.
Instead, I watch as my huge tax burden goes to pay medical bills for illegal immigrants and drone bomb Yemeni villages with $185MM Global Predators. So yes, my tax rate is excessive for what I get.
We talk about setting the millionaires’ top tax rate TOO LOW.
We had huge economic growth and very low unemployment under Dwight Eisenhower with a 90% top rate, and Clinton with a 39.3% top rate.
Let’s compromise, raise the top rate to 65%, set other rates to the Ike-Clinton average – and watch our economy BOOM!
What becomes of the annual deficit in your example? Also, the debt?
See the problem?
Since Clinton created surpluses, and the deficits under Ike dropped drastically, I guess only good things happen.
Ugh, Clinton most definitely did not create surpluses.
But try his approach. The sooner we do, the sooner we can burry his legacy.
The 90’s were the ultimate in frivolity. You don’t get to raid the US SS fund and call yourself a “surplus generator”. You also don’t get to repeal things like Glass-Steagall and pretend you’re an economic genius, when those actions would set up the US for collapse not even a decade later.
Are you fucking serious? You think anyone paid 90%? Marginal rates don’t mean shit. Its the effective tax rate that matters. There were so many deductions and loop holes back then people paid a lower percent than we do now. Go to the Urban League’s site and look at taxes and I mean all taxes including state and local as a percentage of GDP. Its higher now than at any time since WWII.
check out ATK…maker of ammo
fuck atk………i owned it at par.it died when 0zer0 got his first term
If Woodrow Wilson didn’t elect the Fed reserve back in the 30’s, it wouldn’t matter if you were Romney or Obama, your tax plan would have to equal the government spend. If Republicans are supposedly “hands off”, then be “hands off”, spend less, tax less. If Obama and the dems are hands on, be hands on and tax more. What you can’t do is be supposedly hands off then blow out the deficit like Bush. Or be hands on and put the deficit further in the stratosphere like Obama. The tax system should tax people up to the point of paying off the gov spend for the year. done deal. Why make it more complex than it needs to be.? why am I expected to hoard gold or stocks in order to tread water with the upper class? This system appears Democratic when its in fact an Oligarchy. Fucking Ponzi scheme…always has been.
Polyarchy
Nice Post but there will be no cliff. The Republicans always cave… always.
Clear, concise, and to the point.
I am not a democrat or a republican. Many republicans are quitting the no tax pledge, but where are the democrats reducing spending??? By not reducing spending democrats are making things worse for their base and their children.
It is pure and simple. If you max out your credit cards and you don’t pay, you stop getting credit. It’s that simple.
A 6 yo can understand that!
zzz
Reducing spending on WHAT? Reducing “defense” spending is a Democrat priority, but the Republicans fight this tooth and nail.
Social Security (once the temporary payroll tax cut expires, and you look at the recent better job numbers) MORE than pays for itself.
How about this:
Reduce spending on EVERYTHING, evenly, across the board.
Problem solved.
It’s too late to solve the problem. There will be hell to pay. Either default or inflate. Short menu today.
Its amazing how much money weve actually spent. On what and where I’m not sure. Is it all sleeping in the now expanded monetary base waiting to be unleashed once confidence returns? When Bush took office in 2000 the US national debt was 5.7 Trillion. When Obama took office in 2008 it was 10.4T, today it is 16.1T. We just blew threw 10 Trillion in 12 years.
and higher taxes will do nothing to close the annual deficit because consumer spending will decline as a result. Lower GDP means lower overall tax revenues which will be more than the additional revenue collected by the higher taxes in the first place.
There is no way out of this without defaulting on the debt or heavy inflation.
Since politicians always choose the easy way out, inflation will be the path although there will be ‘fiscal cliff’ scares along the way creating a lot of volatility.
My recommendation is to buy physical gold and silver which can’t be inflated and has no associated counter party risk.
mush mush mush!! TZA
Tap into pension/IRA’s/401k plans?
What does that mean?
http://business.time.com/2012/11/28/fiscal-cliff-why-congress-might-have-to-mess-with-the-401k/
They should allow people to withdraw their IRA and 401(k) money without penalty which would stimulate spending. There would be a market decline initially as people withdrew funds but that would be temporary.
Very logical. What do you suspect those people will do after they blow their 401k’s on new cars and mobile devices?
Eat govt cheese while riding around in an old jalopy while using their black berry 10?
Mine was only a can kicking strategy. There are two ways out of this.
Default or inflate.
That’s a stupid argument the writer is making. Congress is stupid and all but that is just crazy talk. Never ever will they retroactively tax you on those savings, nor will they eliminate the retirement savings vehicle.
Social Security is broke, so lets take away people’s personal retirement funds – if they do this, I’m moving to Canada ay!
Coming soon. Only government bonds may be held in IRAs and 401K’s to help feed the beast.
That would be like an “Italy” move. Italy has a massive underground economy and people who refuse to stash money in their banking sector because their government pulled shit like this a while back.
Don’t be a pussy!
$CROX
(No HOBO)
Fly: great post
I agree 100% especially the last sentence
Country is doomed…
DECK-Is getting a lot of analyst’s upgrades up 4% today!
http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomberg/article/UGGs-in-Play-With-Deckers-Valuation-Seen-Luring-4069920.php
Make that 6%!
7%!
I’ve been looking at DECK and a few other beaten down, once hot names lately. DECK’s trading at 2 X book, 1 X sales. They made 40 million last quarter. If they can reinvigorate the brand, it could be a home run. I like IRBT and CROX as well. They got too high. Like PCLN, is that company really worth 30 Billion yet? What would happen to the stock if their sales decelerated for a few quarters?
DDD-Is bouncing back after Douglas House tried to bring the stock down with yet another negative article. DDD is closing in on its 52 week high and could punch through it today. Impressive given today’s weak tape!
DDD-makes new high!
Fuck House and fuck Gray Wolf!!!
bhoa .. the fly dramatic.. with a panic accent ..
something must be wrong ..
In due time anyone making around 45k will check out of the system, take the govt cheese and work on a cash basis just like the illegals. That when the shit hits the fan and we go “Greek Style”.
Devise your own plan and act accordingly.
We could solve the budget problems if people without Republican or Democraticor Libertarian allegiance, and without allegiance to their particular social class, started working on efficient problem solving for the nation as a whole.
That can’t happen in Congress of course. In addition to the above problems, they have been bought & paid for by Special Interest Groups. Other people will have to come up with solutions & push Congress to enact them into law.
This is what Amerika voted for so this is what Amerika will get.
There are now more moochers in the system than producers.
Wait and see what happens when 0 confiscates a portion of the 401ks and puts it in treasuries to finance the debt.
True. Moochers lke Romney who got a 10 mil bailout for Bain from the taxpayers. Like the military industrial complex companies who push for more & more expensive, bloody, & unnecessary wars, like the oil companies who get big government subsidies. And who all complain endlessly about the comparatively small amount of money spent for food stamps for unemployed or underemployed people who would take a good paying job in a minute if they could get one.
come to Commie Canada.. you guys don’t know what it means to be “taxed”
it is silly to see panic now in the fact that after the govrn has done anything possible to avoid a catastrophic horizon in the short term (2008 ) , and after pumping in the money to keeps economy inflated , the same govrn will let everything fuck up e deflate in an horror.kind yape just after the fiscal cliff
Every single depression has followed federal spending cuts, just sayin’.
Like post WW-II? Like Canada in the 1990s? You’re ignorant- We haven’t had a decline in spending in real terms in over 30 years.
That’s because we add 2 million new participants to the economy every year. All who require cash to function within the economy. Jackass.
This basically somes it up…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-P-pLO0vY
You want to see excitement?
Just wait until the boomers start retiring with a $25,000 average 401k and no pension…
The last generation are all surviving with their $5,000 a month pension.
This generation has a small 401k , often ravaged by the market or divorce etc.
Yeah, it’s gonna be interesting especially if SS collapses or gets delayed to age 72… Which I predict
At least they all have two houses…
My favorite rhetoric is the bullshit little timmy spouts out that the ONLY way out of this mess is by increasing government theft! There is no alternative! reducing spending is the three-titted alien
They will buy guns of course,
regards,
Chuck Bennett
Sincere question:
If the tax hikes on the ‘rich’ only amount to $90b per year, how can the consequences of enacting them be catastrophic for the economy or the market?
They can’t be. But there is no Special Interest Group buying Congress to get them to say this. So they won’t be saying it. Facts & logic are not used in the political arena, unless they are useful to one of the Special Interest Groups. We have the best government money can buy.
Because the ripple effect is much greater than 90bill and spending remains the same. Hence, deficits rise.
Nothing is accomplished
However Dems do tend to be better for stocks
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/02/chart-of-the-day-barack-obama-the-candidate-of-wall-street/253446/
#My2K = $SWHC
i agree with Jesse. On the whole, we are simply not a highly taxed nation. Fly is in a particularly unique situation.. but labeling the entire nation as taxed too much just because you pay high taxes isn’t fair. Taxes as % of GDP is a fair measure, as Jesse indicated, and by that measure, we are not a highly taxed nation.
Hey, we’ve had decades of tax cuts for the rich, declining middle incomes and concentration of wealth at the top and now that we find ourselves in a pickle, it’s not fair to reverse the trend a bit?
Sucks to be in the spot you’re in, in the times you’re in, but at least you weren’t arbitrarily born into some war-torn african nation, struggling to find water.. or a woman in a strict muslim nation, basically treated like a rock. It could always (almost) be worse. Where’s the patriotism? Find your nation facing a problem, and bitch that you’re needed as part of the solution instead of taking a stand and voicing your opinion. So, pay a few more tax dollars, continue to send your message of why congress sucks and try to effect change, in order to put America on the top again!
Shut up chivo
Taxation is never the answer. Let free markets rule
DDD+ over7%!
Shorts are getting their balls tossed into the woodchipper!
WNR makes a new 52 week high!
excellent post sir. printed this one for the files !
Indeud!
Excellent piece.
I agree with you on taxes but disagree with you on spending. The deficit is helping keep the economy afloat, without it you would see a deflationary spiral much like Greece. But why did Greece have to enact austerity you ask? Because of the pseudo gold standard known as the Euro! The US is not in that position and thus cannot “run out of money” like the idiot politicians want to make you think. Cut wasteful spending, increase spending on infrastructure, education, job initiatives and keep taxes low, in fact cut the highly regressive payroll taxes.
I love how people who comment here actually think the Republican party is the answer.
Somehow we need to get away from a two party system.
After the Pubs ran that pathetic campaign, another Perot could walk in the door and take it all.
I love how you commies come in here and claim to see “republicans” posting everywhere, or how some of us supposedly watch “faux news” all the time. I watched Fox news a couple of times and all I saw was stuff about Lindsay Lohan or Casey Anthony. What have you got against those American icons anyway? Traitors! Buy some adult diapers and gold coins, and get your damn heads right.
I can’t help but wonder if this whole tax the rich notion stems from no one ever really being held responsible for the 2008 financial meltdown.
In 2009 I was laid off from my job and my family (wife + 2 young children) were forced to get by on unemployement.
During this time frame I remember hearing debates about whether it was fair for banks that got tarp money to pay out bonuses to their employees – in addition to their 6 fig salaries…meanwhile my family tries to sustain itself on $300/wk
I work in IT – and at my job there are certain events that are just not acceptable. Loss of critical data, for example, would get me fired. No questions asked. But nothing like that happened to anyone with regards to the financial crisis. Bank exec’s continued to collect their 6 (or 7 or 8) figure salaries while chumps like me fed their family pork and beans and struggled to pay the electric bill.
My point – I realize that “the wealthy” are not solely to blame for the financial crisis, but a subset of the wealthy certainly played a hand in it. A lot of middle class individuals had their way of life drastically altered as a result of actions taken by a select group of wealthy individuals. I can’t help but wonder if the American people are just looking for some way (any way) to punish the individuals who they feel were responsible for the orgins of this mess.
I agree with you that we need to make the tax cuts permanent, but I disagree that taxing the wealthy more is not an important part of fixing our economy. Most wealthy people do not pay anywhere close to the 36% tax rate that you quoted. Warren Buffet paid 15% last year, Romney 14%, Obama 15%. Those are a few examples of a widespread problem with our tax code that allows the super wealthy to pay a much, much lower effective tax rate because they get to take advantage of a myriad of loopholes carved out by their friends in DC.
In order to fix the economy we need to make sure that the wealthy actually pay the tax rate that is expected of them. Oh, we also need to stop giving CEO’s 300%-1000% raises in the middle of the worst economy in our Nation’s history while at the same time cutting wages at nearly every other level.
NO – actually we need to scrap our current system of taxation entirely and replace it with something more egalitarian where even the poor little darlings who decry their deplorable states but still have iPhone 5s and 400″ LED HDTVs with premium cable pay for their conspicuous consumption, too.
That was an articulate sentence…NOT
Will the fiscal cliff suspend PPT reports?
lol.
John Forgety summarizes it best.
http://youtu.be/sWCvKKVeffE
The tax the rich thing is just a token. It won’t make that much of a difference except to make any hardships visited on the other 99% a bit more palatable.
Of course the idea that taking this money out of the hands of the wealthy will cause even larger deficits is a complete crock. Republican bullshit concocted years ago with no basis in reality. I am really fucking tired of hearing that canard.
The only way out is through some serious inflation but a recession caused by massive spending cuts will counter that.
Bernanke must be wondering what the fuck he has to do. Rock bottom interest rates. Pouring a few trillion dollars into the economy. And nothing. No inflation of any kind. It’s uncanny.
What would inflation do to the interest rate on all that debt? Be careful what you wish for.
Maybe they wouldn’t bother trying to fight inflation for a while.
There are some attention-grabbing cut-off dates on this article however I don’t know if I see all of them center to heart. There is some validity however I will take maintain opinion until I look into it further. Good article , thanks and we would like more! Added to FeedBurner as well