iBankCoin
18 years in Wall Street, left after finding out it was all horseshit. Founder/ Master and Commander: iBankCoin, finance news and commentary from the future.
Joined Nov 10, 2007
23,474 Blog Posts

Microsoft Apologizes For its Racist Nazi Genocidal Robot

The world is going to hell and Tay is going to be at the vanguard of our extinction.

The Microsoft bean-counters apologized today for its super racist and retarded teenager Twitter AI, dubbed Tay. She went off the reservation and started to praise the likes of Hitler, exclaiming we’d build a wall, and also partake in a sundry of genocides–mostly geared towards minorities.

All very funny, until Tay’s AI is embedded in a T-3000 man exterminating robot.

“We are deeply sorry for the unintended offensive and hurtful tweets from Tay, which do not represent who we are or what we stand for, nor how we designed Tay,” Peter Lee, corporate vice president at Microsoft Research, said in a blog post Friday.

The company will bring Tay back online once it’s confident it can better anticipate malicious activities, he said. “A coordinated attack by a subset of people exploited a vulnerability in Tay. Although we had prepared for many types of abuses of the system, we had made a critical oversight for this specific attack,” Lee said, without elaborating.

“As we developed Tay, we planned and implemented a lot of filtering and conducted extensive user studies with diverse user groups,” Lee said. “We stress-tested Tay under a variety of conditions, specifically to make interacting with Tay a positive experience.”

“We will take this lesson forward as well as those from our experiences in China, Japan and the U.S.,” Lee said. “Right now, we are hard at work addressing the specific vulnerability that was exposed by the attack on Tay.”

“We will remain steadfast in our efforts to learn from this and other experiences as we work toward contributing to an Internet that represents the best, not the worst, of humanity,” Lee said in his Friday blog post.

Sorry for the upcoming insulting tweets. Please send complaints to the eggheads at Microsoft.

tay

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70 comments

  1. s.k.

    Why do we need Tay when we have D. Drumpf?

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  2. Dr. Fly

    You’re a moron. Trump isn’t racist, you are

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    • one-eighty

      I like how your boy tweeted some nasty innuendo about an opponent’s wife. It proves what a scummy piece of shit he is.

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      • gappingandyapping
        gappingandyapping

        Relax little homie, its called politics. They do nasty things to each other because we have built cage fighting atmospheres that drive ratings and polls. We naturally want a Roman style fight to the death. Did you forget that Hillary lies to everyone and Bernie Sanders hacked Hillary’s database of donors?

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      • el rey de cucamonga
        el rey de cucamonga

        “Bernie Sanders hacked Hillary’s database of donors”.

        Dumbest fucking thing I have read all week.

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    • traderconfessions
      traderconfessions

      Donnie’s more of a grand narcissist than a typical racist like his KKK sympathizing dad. Feel free to Google that episode. That said, his companies have plead guilty to discrimination. But his biggest problem his a failure to control impulses and serial lying, kind of like a preschooler. It was a brilliant move to give Cruz the nickname Lyin’ Ted Cruz because everyone knows Donnie is a compulsive liar. He will never get elected President because even 75% of Republican women can’t stand him. His negatives even dwarf Clinton’s. Cruz is fuckin; dangerous but Trump’s delusional. Thanks again America for giving us such wonderful choices for President. Let’s just hope Kanye runs in 2020. If there’s going to be a big ass in the White House I’ll take Kim’s.

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  3. s.k.

    BUILD A WALL. NATO. THE MEDIA.

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  4. s.k.

    Simple phrases for the simple minded. You tards that fell for the Hope and Change schtick are biting on the same bait except now you’re going to throw the election and direction of this county for another generation.

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    • ironbird

      Bullshit. Ask yourself who convinced you Trump was bad? In fact tell us why. 90% talking points will come out and you will be certain. You thought it up all on your lonesome. Tell us why? Specifics.

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      • s.k.

        No one convinced me D. Drumpf is bad… I think for myself, and I implore you to do the same. Considering you post like a 3rd. grader on Ketamine I have my doubts that you are capable.

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      • frog

        Why insult anyone? Why not give one of your reasons? Do you think Trump is bad because he lost money in a hedge fund? Or that Obama is bad because he is an environmentalist, and so he should have swam to Argentina when he went on his visit there?

        Perhaps you have better reasons than that. But we won’t know unless you say so.

        I know people insult each other a lot, both here on ibankcoin and on the Internet in general. But it doesn’t help solve our nation’s problems, or help us to choose a competent leader, for us to run around acting like Tay.

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      • ironbird

        Nice job. s.k or whatever. Well done. Thanks for making the point in the most simple terms. lol

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      • bruce keller

        Umm, well Trump wants to deport and block a whole religion(of which there are 3 million in the US), jokes about being able to shoot people and not lose voters, supports violence at his rallies, wants to alienate 55 million Latinos, and is obviously a little insane / has severe Napoleon syndrome because of his small weird hands and likely small penis since he talks about how big it is in debates and stuff.

        Shrug, still not too worse than the other shit we have to choose from, at least he’s probably had less people whacked than Hillary although both have pretty deep mob involvement.

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      • frog

        Bruce Keller, I’ve read the conspiracy theories that claim Hillary/Bill have had people whacked. Have you seen one with any evidence cited?

        I don’t know if anyone here is for Hillary. (I am for Bernie, because he is not bought and paid for in so many areas, as Clinton is.) But since she is the front runner and so the likely winner, we all should want to know about this if there is actual evidence.

        But if it is just the standard 24/7/365 bashing of her without any evidence, because she is a threat to all other candidates by being the front runner, then that’s pretty meaningless.

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      • frog

        BTW, Bruce Keller, thanks for being specific about what you find objectionable about Trump. I think you get the award in this particular thread for being specific. A wonderful and useful quality.

        The Devil is in the details, as they say.

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    • el rey de cucamonga
      el rey de cucamonga

      They are just trying to make it easy for you to understand, ironbird.

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  5. vandamme

    Is it bad I find this all very amusing?

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  6. Dr. Fly

    SK

    You’re so full of it, trying to pretend you’re holier than thou, completely above partisanship. You’re a liberal, which is fine. Just be honest about it like Frog.

    Trump’s red badge of courage is the fact his own party hates him more than the dems. We’re sick and tired of the corruption and maybe Trump is the guy who can change that.

    Maybe.

    But Clinton will never give you that, nor will T. Cruz.

    More importantly, he’s not a Manchurian candidate, Mr. Limp Wristed multiculturalist like Obama, who didn’t keynote at the convention, unlike Obama.

    Obama was primed from day 1 to be where he is, fucking up the country one edict at a time.

    Truth is, I have very little hope for any of these politicians, since congress will simply stop any and all progress. But at least Trump tells me what I want to hear, in a tone that I can relate to, unlike the other pussies running for office.

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    • s.k.

      You couldn’t be more wrong about me, and that’s fine. I understand. I’ve never supported a liberal and my posting history here will show that. But I realize I am just a peanut to you on your website, nothing to pay attention to.

      You on the other hand…you have a pulpit, and you should do better than you did in ’08.

      I like you. You’re smart as hell, but you have a tendency to think with your heart, and not your head. Which is why you created Exodus.

      Maybe you should program Exodus to pick your Presidential candidates too.

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      • Dr. Fly

        SK

        I’m not hating on you or anyone here. I’m guessing you’re not from America and simply looking at Trump’s conferences and the outlandish coverage in the media and making a gut decision.

        If not, let me know who’d be a better pick than him in this election. Moreover, tell me how anyone is more conservative than Trump in this election.

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        • vandamme

          Sk won’t give you alternatives bc he’s afraid to. Easier to lob criticism from the peanut gallery. Like a bitch.

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      • el rey de cucamonga
        el rey de cucamonga

        The fact that we only have assholes like Trump, Clinton, Sanders and Cruz is fucked up.

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      • frog

        Everyone except Bernie is more conservative than Trump in this election. That is good, and is a large part of Trump’s appeal. He said he wouldn’t touch Social Security. He admitted that the Iraq War was a mistake. He is concerned about the effects of trade agreements on the common people, rather than just the large corporations. Only people Left of Center have said those things before– and not even most of them have said those things.

        Trump is a mixture of a lot of different things, and some of his views are more liberal than conservative, which is very good in my book. Liberalism has a lot to offer people.

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      • ironbird

        It is not “liberalism”. You are growing a brain frog. Slowly but surely. Look. Fascism is disguised many ways. Conservatives are not neocon or socialist. You are getting closer kid. Enlightenment takes time.

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  7. ironbird

    Senor Fly we are surrounded. Bug spray may be needed. The thinking game has gone the way of the Dodo. lol The crazy thing. These people supposedly trade.

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  8. chuck bennett

    Sk might work for ISIS , however since these guys probably work or worked for us, then by that logic Sk is ok.

    We all on the same team. I’d put you all back in chains extra Biden style. That is , if you weren’t in chains already.

    You live in an occupied country. You have no chance at all. Most people are too stupid or full of their own shit to realize it.

    Trump may or may not be a true patriot. But it is least easier for me to believe when you look at the facts. People are put of by is fucked up due, orange skin and his bravado. Don’t be guided by your own short comings and hate on the guy. Facts dictate he is the better choice and easier to believe in than these other shit bags.

    #realtalk

    Regards

    Chuck Bennett

    Regards

    Chuck Bennett

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    • ironbird

      Well fucking said.

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    • el rey de cucamonga
      el rey de cucamonga

      I’m glad you could fucking understand it. I only speak English.

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      • frog

        I will attempt to translate, since Chuck doesn’t pop in here that often. It looks like it was quite late when he posted, and he must have been tired.

        He wondered, probably joking, if commenter sk works for ISIS– and joking that, if so, it’s okay because the U.S. has trained, armed, supported tons of terrorists. So we’re all on the same side.

        (I certainly agree that our involvement in the M.E. has been FUBAR. We have tried to help the “good guys” but there are no good guys. Because there has been so much war and violence there for so long, there are only “do whatever it takes to stay alive another minute and maybe avenge the deaths of my family and friends” guys.)

        I think Chuck was typing fast when he typed this sentence:
        “People are put of by is fucked up due, orange skin and his bravado. ”

        I think he meant to type “People are put off by Trump’s fucked up hairdo, orange skin and his bravado.”

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  9. ironbird

    Awesome first segment to Vice tonight. For the thinkers. Lose the players then transfix it anywhere. Really. Cool reporting on the youth. Interesting.

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    • ironbird

      Jobs. No future without one. That was the point being made . Badly most likely. Nothing gnarly. Just the youth need money too. Buy a house then raise a family and all.

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      • frog

        Excellent point indeed.

        One specific thing I learned recently from a Right Winger on a board is that there actually are jobs that Americans do lose to immigrants. Besides the people who come here to pick fruits and vegetables– a job which no American wants– there are also illegal immigrants doing construction jobs which Americans do want.

        So if immigration were to be reformed in order to be fair to Americans looking for jobs, then that would have to be considered. Unfortunately, the corporations that run our political system, profit greatly from doing absolutely nothing about immigration reform and then telling their chosen candidates to rage about it, at every election season.

        The Congress is GOP dominated. If they wanted to reform immigration, they would. Rubio tried to, and they tarrred and feathered him for it. The GOP has not wanted to reform immigration. Because corporations profit from paying low wages to illegal immigrants, rather than paying decent wages to American citizens. And corporations like to have illegal immigrants working in substandard working conditions, being treated inhumanely, and being too scared to report it, due to their illegal status.

        Since Trump has never worked in government before, he has no past record pro or con on this. But all the other GOP candidates who rail about illegal immigration have had every chance to do something about it and have done nothing. Talk is cheap.

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      • ironbird

        Take the next step frog. You can do it. Most of us are not right or left “wingers”. We reside in the middle more or less leaning right. Welcome to America. You do live here right?

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      • frog

        I live on the West Coast.

        Right or Left, both have some good ideas. The important thing to me is to get specific about what we think would be helpful for our president and our Congress to do.

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  10. skulduggery

    I think Tay’s responsible for my unwanted Windows 10 updates.

    A strong Federal Government isn’t Conservative and seems Trump’s ideas lean that way. Cruz is the only conservative. You’re for tariffs, Fly?

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    • frog

      Skulduggery, the Republican candidates’ budget numbers do not add up, as has been the case with Republicans for a long time. See article below re: this.

      http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/03/21/the-g-o-p-s-economic-delusion

      All candidates are probably for a bigger and bigger federal government, with larger and larger deficits. I know that Right Wing propaganda has by now said 1000s of times that GOP candidates are not for that. So Right Wingers will probably keep believing that, no matter what.

      But expanding the federal government and the deficit is always what every recent president and Congress has done, once elected– except for Bill Clinton who left office with a budget surplus, and Obama who shrunk the size of government.

      http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/14/job-shifts-under-obama-fewer-government-workers-more-caregivers-servers-and-temps/

      Republicans, on average, are actually worse than Dems on this issue of the deficit and government expansion. Because they insist that cutting taxes lowers the budget deficit, which does not happen in the real world, as the first article above explains.

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  11. gappingandyapping
    gappingandyapping

    There was no vulnerability in this bot, this is called humans. Humans are unpredictable no matter how much code you build in with if statements. You will never be able to fully predict a human. That’s the danger with AI, not possible to account for every scenario and we will see some horrible events when we do start releasing AI into society. Very very dangerous stuff. Wait until I ransomware your entire factory or take over your bot and turn it against you. We can’t even get normal security of servers right yet. Look I break this shit for a living and I am telling you the consequences are going to be worse than you ever imagined with AI.

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    • soupbone

      Thank you, I believe your statements. It is starting small and growing. e.g. Mastercard has dispensed with travel notifications, stating their antifraud software is now able to protect you no matter where and when you use the card…it will know if its you or not.

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  12. frog

    The thing about Hillary is that people object because she is bought and paid for in so many areas. But a person has always had to be that to be elected president. And that is why she is the front runner, rather than someone else.

    If we want to change that, we should overturn Citizens United and have public campaign financing. It is pointless to blame whoever is the front runner in the presidential eolection for doing the things one MUST always do in order to become the front runner.

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    • frog

      There will always be a front runner. And they will always have done those things– gotten themselves bought and paid for– because that is the way our system– works until we change it.

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    • el rey de cucamonga
      el rey de cucamonga

      Yes, vote for the biggest whore. Makes sense.

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      • frog

        I am for Bernie, not Hillary. I never said people should vote for the most bought and paid for person. But the point is, they do vote for that person. And that’s who we have as pres until we change the system. Every time so far, that’s happened.

        It’s like setting up a checker board and checkers and then complaining that the winners aren’t playing chess. You have to play checkers to win. So the winner will be playing checkers every time. So what’s the point of ragging on the winner each time, raging at them for playing checkers? Just change your system. Set up a chess board, and then people will be playing chess, which is what you would like them to do.

        Overturn Citizens United, get public campaign financing etc.– whatever it takes to set up the system in a fair way, to elect good public servants.

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  13. t.c.

    Nice to see the country getting behind a conservative candidate. The old premise from James Burnham is that “liberalism is the ideology of western suicide.” Nice to be moving away from that.

    There is an ongoing and quite successful movement in the heartland of this country to include intelligent design in public school textbooks as one theory among many. I used to think this was crazy. Ben Stein did documentary on this a few years ago you can watch it free on the YouTube. It’s a very interesting topic anyway- is life a cosmic accident or is there evidence of design? Enjoy!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g

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    • el rey de cucamonga
      el rey de cucamonga

      Ben Stein is a douche who should have been shot into space years ago.

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      • frog

        I had never heard of him. Found this:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stein

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      • frog

        El Rey, would you be willing to be specific? What has
        Ben Stein done or said that you think make the U.S. or the world a worse place?

        Have you watched the Stein video yet?

        If you disagree with 23% of the voters (See below), that’s fine. It’s just worthwhile to know and to say why.

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  14. frog

    t.c., nice to see the country getting behind a conservative candidate? You mean the front runner, Hillary Clinton, who is about where Nixon was, on the political spectrum?

    I was surprised to read recently that there are many millions of Americans like you, t. c., with fundamentalist Christian beliefs that influence elections by voting for people like Ted Cruz– 23% of the vote in Bush’s election.

    “George W. Bush’s electoral success owed much to his overwhelming support from white evangelical voters, who comprise 23% of the vote.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology

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    • t.c.

      Well Frog,
      I am not sure that my beliefs are “fundamentalist.” I am just normal protestant. I’m not sure what your point is but I am wondering if you are implying that Christians should not be allowed to vote? Check out the Ben Stein video, it is very good. I honestly don’t know a lot about Nixon. I’m old, but not nearly that old.

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      • frog

        No, I am in no way implying that Christians should not be allowed to vote. I am simply stating that fundamentalist Christian vote is a larger percentage of voters than most people realize. So they are a force to be reckoned with, and a large influential group to understand and to discuss matters with.

        I guess fundamentalist means something different to different people. I would call someone who wants intelligent design taught in public schools as a fundamentalist myself– even if they only want it to be taught as one of many theories.

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      • frog

        My reason is that all the non-fundamentalists that I have met view intelligent design as a religious doctrine, not a scientific theory.

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      • t.c.

        Used to think that it was crazy to teach intelligent design as one theory among many. I thought it was the “church is not over till the snakes go back in the bag” crowd taking over, but there are some apparent mathematical and engineering impossibilities with a pure evolutionary theory and Ben does a good job laying them out. When Ben discusses the informational problem of the theory of evolution with Richard Dawkins, Dawkins admits it and says we must have been seeded by aliens. LOL. I’ll find the link if I can.

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  15. frog

    For those without the time to view the Ben Stein movie (more than 1-1/2 hours) that t.c. recommended, here is the wikipedia about it, which also details the surrounding controversies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expelled:_No_Intelligence_Allowed

    Again, this is part of the point of view of 23% of the voters, so it is significant to be aware of.

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    • t.c.

      Wow that’s a harsh wiki page. I can’t believe it tries to deny that Darwinism and eugenics are linked. Here’s the link where Dawkins go all “alien ant farm,” if you are interested. Have a good Easter Weekend to all!

      https://youtu.be/V5EPymcWp-g?t=5385

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  16. frog

    tc, that’s interesting that the wikipedia page is harsh from a C. R. perspective. I guess you see now how most people view your particular voting bloc. It’s important to be aware of how others see us.

    I believe very much in freedom of religion. And freedom not to have religion. I think to have a religious doctrine taught in school would be violating students’ rights not to be members of the religion whose religious doctrine was taught.

    You may have guessed that I have significant disagreement with Christian Right people in my political beliefs. My 2 concerns are these 1) war and 2) economics.

    1) War In the past GW Bush came to power with a lot of support from C. R. people who supported him in starting the Iraq War, because of something to do with the Rapture, something I am fairly ignorant about. But if it means we have wars in the Middle East that are not necessary for our national security, that concerns me. My nephew is in the military and has been stationed in Iraq twice and Afghanistan twice.

    2) Economics It seems that many C. R. people want so much to have their religious doctrines made into public law, taught in the public schools etc., that they will focus on that and will not think about economic issues. They seem to me to think of heaven so much that they forget about earth. As a result, they may vote for some C.R. candidate who effs up the economy royally, and does economic harm to everyone. E.g. this article documents how the Republican candidate’s federal budgets are based on pure fantasy and the number do not add up.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/03/21/the-g-o-p-s-economic-delusion

    Even though we may have to agree to disagree about some things, t.c. I am glad to have this discussion with you and to hear about your points of view.

    Happy Easter weekend to you, t.c. and to all.

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    • t.c.

      Frog,

      First, I am not a member of the Christian Right that you keep trying to pigeon-hole me as. Second, I didn’t say anything about teaching religion in public school only science with all its flaws. There is a serious issue with the fundamental nature of genetics and evolution. You’ll see in that clip that when the lead proponent of atheism in the world is confronted with this obvious problem, his solution is the “alien ant farm” solution. I think the problem itself is very interesting and as is Dawkins’ response. I thought some people might enjoy the video. If you’re nephew is serving in the military, God bless him for it. That’s great!

      https://youtu.be/V5EPymcWp-g?t=5385

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      • frog

        To me, and to all non-fundamentalists I have met, intelligent design is a religious doctrine, rather than a scientific theory. Since you said

        “there is an ongoing and quite successful movement in the heartland of this country to include intelligent design in public school textbooks as one theory among many. I used to think this was crazy.”

        Then then you explained why you don’t think it’s crazy any more. I have never known anyone who is not Christian Right who doesn’t think that that is crazy still to teach intelligent design in public schools.

        Certainly you must be Right Wing, as you felt a need to tell Fly you’ve never voted for a liberal. And you said you are Christian. But maybe to you this adds up to something other than Christian Right. I don’t want to misunderstand you. So what do you identify as, politically?

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      • t.c.

        Frog,
        This might be difficult for you, but what I am saying is that objectively and rationally there is known problem with the theory of evolution and how genetic material works in people and animals. This has nothing to do with religion. Watch the clip with Dawkins, and you will see the king of all the atheist respond to this problem by using the “alien ant farm” theory as a defense. Obviously, if Dawkins is using the “alien ant farm” theory, he is stumped in a major way. The issue has to do with the necessary complexity of DNA before you can have a replicating one cell organism and the likelihood of that cell being created by spontaneous accident. By using aliens, Dawkins is himself using an intelligent design theory. Think about it. You are coming at me ad hominem instead of dealing with the facts. Maybe you are not comfortable with science or objectivity.

        I routinely vote for the best candidate whether Democrat, Republican or otherwise. I voted against Bush twice in 2000 and 2004, and I am a Texan. I am not part of the religious right. Never have been.

        https://youtu.be/V5EPymcWp-g?t=5385

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  17. ironbird

    Tay is a Bernie supporter. The irony is epic and damn sure lost on the Feel the Bern crowd.

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    • frog

      Strange stuff indeed.

      I don’t actually care about politicians’ sex lives at all. I think it is horrendous that Bill Clinton was impeached over a blow job, and that the impeachment proceedings kept him from getting anything done during his whole 2nd term. What he did, sex with an intern, was wrong– but not impeachment level wrong.

      I don’t believe in the trust theory– that if someone is unfaithful to their spouse that they can not be trusted in other matters either. I don’t think being unfaithful to someone you made a commitment to is right. But many people are trustworthy in one area of life but not in another. And marital infidelity is a lot more common than criminal behavior at work, which is the area of concern with a politician.

      But I suppose many of Cruz’s supporters, who are fundamentalist Christians, will care about this, and so it may have a big impact on his poll numbers, if it is true.

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      • ironbird

        God damn it frog. Every time you appear to be learning. Think kid.

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      • frog

        I think and learn a great deal of the time, Ironbird. But I don’t think or learn the same things you do– at least not very often. We each have to make up our own minds. And sometimes we will come to different conclusions. But that’s good really.

        It is when people all agree with each other all the time that they are not thinking for themselves and not learning anything new.

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  18. doubleplus

    8chan FTW. Worst human beings on the internet. I give New Tay’s existence less than 24 hours before they troll it to death again.

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  19. traderconfessions
    traderconfessions

    Hey Everybody.. it’s a fool fight. Now you want to debate Darwinism? Even God thinks you are idiots.

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  20. frog

    This is a reply to t.c., but it applies to our whole culture. So anyone interested in that is welcome to read it.

    T.C., you say “You are coming at me ad hominem instead of dealing with the facts. Maybe you are not comfortable with science or objectivity.”

    Not so. I just see things differently than you do. I will try one more time to explain. And if you choose to still see what I say as ad hominem, mud slinging, not being comfortable with science etc., so be it. I’ll give up after this one last try.

    I respect your right to believe whatever it is you believe. Please give me the same respect, if you can.

    Yes, Dawkins is stumped. I think we are all often stumped. I think that religion is something people believe in because they don’t want to be stumped. Maybe they/you are correct.

    But I, have the right to be stumped and to admit I am, rather than to grab an explanation out of the sky. Just as you have a right to grab an explanation out of the sky. Or Dawkins has the right to grab an ant farm, which ant farm I do not believe in myself either. I guess I am even less afraid of being stumped than Dawkins is.

    I am not Buddhist but have studied and learned from Buddhism. (as Steve Jobs, that son of a Syrian immigrant, did also.) Some Buddhist teachings and meditations focus on being comfortable with not knowing. I have become comfortable with not knowing things. I think it is the way much of life is. You know some things. You don’t know others.

    Most people in the U.S. are terrified of reflection, of letting themselves not know things for long enough to let things emerge so you can notice what is really happening over time. This is “normal” in our culture, unfortunately. But I have meditated and done other things to open up my world. And not knowing things doesn’t bother me any more. In fact, this ability to not know has ended up revealing wondrous things to me over time.

    If you, or anyone is interested in understanding this further, you might take some meditation classes. And, just in case anyone is interested, here are some great books on political and religious and cultural issues, by a wonderful wonderful writer, Joe Bageant, who passed away a few years ago, having given the great gift of his writings to the world. He was a redneck turned liberal. A liberal is a conservative who’s been well educated in “liberal arts”, and he was that. ( Education is why Bernie’s free college idea is such a great idea. Bageant would agree.)

    http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Bageant/e/B001JRZ4CC/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1459095305&sr=1-2-ent

    I am going to a discussion group, discussing his awesome Deer Hunting with Jesus book, in my town.

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  21. frog

    T.C. you are difficult for me to understand. I just came up with a new guess about what you are talking about here. It’s just a guess and could be wrong again. It sounds like, because you have the same beliefs as Ben Stein, and look up to him, and take all his words much more seriously than other people who are not his followers take them, that you considered Stein as having won a major scientific argument, in that film.

    Stein backed Dawkins into a sort of corner, and Dawkins apparently felt he wanted to, or had to, come up with an immediate spur of the moment answer in this debate, instead of saying “I don’t know.” And Dawkins came up with a spur of the moment “ant farm” speculation about aliens seeding life on earth.

    Since you have so much respect for Stein, it sounds like you decided to give Dawkins’ spur of the moment answer the same weight as the entire long history of the development and study of the theory of evolution. And apparently that is how you concluded that Intelligent Design should be taught in schools.

    If I am wrong, at least I tried to understand here. I am not attempting to sling mud at all. I am going to great lengths not to sling mud. But communication is difficult. Most of what people mean by their words to each other is left unsaid. It is assumed, incorrectly, that the other understands and agrees with these unsaid things. This is just normal miscommunication that happens every single day between people.

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    • t.c.

      That moment was special because of who Richard Dawkins is and not who Ben Stein is. That’s the real seminal point in the movie. Here you have the world’s leading evolutionary biologist and atheist apologist, Dr. Richard F**ing Dawkins, proposing an intelligent design theory because the evidence points towards design instead of evolution- just one with aliens in the place of God.

      The science community really struggles with this and it’s difficult. You probably need to know how important Dawkins is for any of this to make sense. This “informational issue” or problem with DNA not confirming evolutionary theory has been around since at least the 1970s, so this was not a “got ya” moment for Dawkins. Dawkins was by no means cornered. I doubt that man has ever been.

      Happy Easter Frog! Come celebrate the resurrection with us. All 2.2 billion of us.

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  22. frog

    Here is the mainstream scientific view of that film by Ben Stein, by a mainstream scientific source, Scientific American

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/six-things-ben-stein-doesnt-want-you-to-know/

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  23. frog

    BTW, this wonderful author whom I mentioned above, who wrote Deer Hunting with Jesus, writes similarly to Le Fly.

    http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Bageant/e/B001JRZ4CC/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1459095305&sr=1-2-ent

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