iBankCoin
18 years in Wall Street, left after finding out it was all horseshit. Founder/ Master and Commander: iBankCoin, finance news and commentary from the future.
Joined Nov 10, 2007
19,909 Blog Posts

Yearning For a Fresh Bubble Burst

You fucking software engineers will be homeless inside of 5 years. You little fuckers are feeling all high and mighty now, billing out $150 per hour, pilfering, mind you, honest and hardworking Blogfather’s for personal gain. It’s egregious and soon enough black smoke and shards of metal will cover your person, when the new dot com bubble bursts all over your faces.

Although I value the efforts of professionals, mind you, the pricing structure is out of control. You’re not a tax attorney or surgeon. You’re a fucking video game dork, fucking around on the computers, hacking away like a robotic monkey on speed.

As an aside, DON’T BET ON CONGRESS HOOKING YOU UP.

I want you to remember who you are dealing with, ladies and gents. The Tea Party people think they were “duped” by overzealous bankers into approving TARP. They really believe nothing would have happened if we let the banks fail. These people are dangerous. Listen to the rhetoric. They are laughing at S&P and all of the people who are warning against default. Listen, they believe, emphatically, that NOTHING will happen if we default. Do you understand? It’s fucking madness to bet that Congress will do the rational thing.

Whether you know it or not, I am telling you now, this is the TARP vote all over again. This time, the fuckers from Fantasy land want revenge on the bankers by way of clown raping the whole country, stuffing us into carnival cannons, and squeezing in hungry lions to keep us company.

Disclosure: I am now 80% cash.

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277 comments

  1. scott

    They would like to bring us to the better world of yesteryear. You’ve seen them when you were on your trip through PA. They travel by horse & buggy…

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    • JakeGint

      No, you are right, Scott. We can just continue taking on huge amounts of leverage hoping that

      a) interest rates remain at zirp forever and

      b) the credulous free world continues to accept our devalued currency until the Baby Boom has passed through the snake in 2055 or so.

      But yeah, people who think maybe that’s not the best critical thinking at the moment must be fucking Mennonites.

      Jeez.

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    • Spleen Grease

      Help me out here… what is to prevent the US govt (not the Fed Reserve) from issuing it’s own dollars to pay off the interest on the existing govt debt, and getting rid of the Fed Reserve’s for-profit portion of the debt, at the very least?

      Wouldn’t that buy us another 20 years or so?

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      • go2mars

        The bankers who pushed TARP, and are making European countries into debt-slaves are the only thing standing in the way. That, and the propogation of bad advice. Intelligent people realize that a default would have massive short-term pain. Of course it would. But your head isn’t going to explode. But then the country can end the FED, get on with a hard currency, and place very significant restrictions on lending money. Give it some years, and you find that you aren’t enslaving your own babies by kicking the can of debt-slavery at them.

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      • DMG

        I’ll help you out. First, don’t be afraid to use the name you’ve previously posted under.
        Second, “its” only gets the apostrophe when you’re combining it and is – not using the third person possessive.

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  2. JakeGint

    If the House passes the watered down useless bill tonight, the entire issue will be in you Dems’ court. Who will you kvetch at then when you are fed to the hungry lions by their/your continuing innumeracy?

    The level of cognitive dissonance is unbelievable. So you voted for Obama… don’t compound your erreurs (sic) by laying blame for this can-kick at the feet of the people who were elected — in a landslide! — to address it.

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    • jimmy_two_times
      jimmy_two_times

      Unless Bama has a trump card, the only option is to let the market tank and then reps break ranks (paraphrasing Cain) adn Bama gets what he wants.

      Last I checked Y = C + I + E + G, and with C hitting the skids G is the only way to plug the hole.

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      • Mark

        His trump card could be an executive order to increase the debt ceiling.

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        • jimmy_two_times
          jimmy_two_times

          interesting point. how many have been challenged and then overturned by the courts?

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          • JakeGint

            No one’s ever tried to “executive order” spending that’s the constitutionally mandated job of the Legislative branch before.

            There’s always a first I guess. Dems might want to be concerned about precedence here, however.

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          • jimmy_two_times
            jimmy_two_times

            this makes the most sense. it could be played out as a “national security measure”.

            think about how it would stall out the process.

            Obama can issue an Executive order to raise the debt ceiling. He can do this without congress. Only 2 Executive orders have been successfully challenged in court and over turned (from what I found).

            Congress can block by passing legislation to conflict, but Obama can Veto it. The only other way to block the order is to have a 2/3s majority in congress vote against it. I don’t think they’d get the vote to block it in congress.

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            Break a Boner!

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            That might be a Reagan moment … “Sir, I’m paying for that mike!”

            Invoking the 14th amendment in the midst of this shit storm added to getting Bin Laden would surely get him re-elected at this point. No wonder the Tea Party doesn’t want him to do it.

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          • JakeGint

            The Tea Party doesn’t want him to do it because it will break the economy even worse than he’s already done, by shooting interest rates skyward.

            You think Boehner doesn’t want to lay this whole thing at Obama’s feet? That would be the perfect solution for him.

            Not for people that actually give a damn about the economy, however.

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          • Treepart

            The strategy of laying the whole thing at Obama’s feet is part of the problem. Why not try to work out a solution for the sake of the country. Both sides of the aisle and Obama are incapable of accomplishing anything substantive. This country is unwinding and the pols are more interested in laying blame than finding common ground and actually doing something.

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          • go2mars

            Allow me to outline the issue. “Spending more than your income = stupid except in the very shortest of timeframes”.

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    • The Fly

      I believe the people have spoken, Godfather Gint.

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    • The Equalizer

      “If the House passes the watered down useless bill tonight, the entire issue will be in you Dems’ court. Who will you kvetch at then when you are fed to the hungry lions by their/your continuing innumeracy?”

      Jake, you’re missing the point. Some of us (at least, most of us who are net long!) want a deal – any deal – that prevents an otherwise-preventable crash from occurring next week. We care about what our trading accounts are going to be worth next month, not who gets to rule DC next year.

      And the only thing we care about insofar as a crash is concerned is whether or not we can get short ahead of a default, or get long ahead of a deal. We really don’t care whether the Jackasses or the Elephants take the blame (or the credit), so long as we can profit from it.

      But while we’re on the subject of macroeconomics, what would be so wrong with just printing another trillion? Isn’t inflationary/expansionist fiscal policy ultimately more bullish for hard assets (including precious metals) than the debt-deflation-depression scenario that is likely to arise from either a default or an austerity programme?

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      • JakeGint

        Here’s what maybe you are not getting — there is no “real” default when it’s “chosen” by bickering politicians.

        The “real default” comes when our sovereign credit is no longer acceptable, because the world realizes the jig is up on our debt levels.

        Therefore the credibility derived from the resolution of this issue is FAR more important to all of our pocket books than the prospect of this bullshit “default” which is in fact, not a real default.

        Again, consult the markets. They will let you know when real default looms.

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        • The Equalizer

          That I’ll accept. What I dispute is that the jig is up. Had we smiply bumped up the ceiling another trillion or two on schedule (read: a couple of months ago), and then commenced with the horsetrading, the bond ratings agencies wouldn’t have batted an eye, because that’s what we’ve done every couple of years since time immemorial. A little kabuki dance, the ceiling gets raised, and then a budget debate begins.

          The reason default – real or imagined – is even on the table is because a bunch of asshats in DC have collectively decided to play chicken, and the “solutions” thus far proposed have the form “and then we’ll play chicken during the primaries, and then we’ll play chicken again just before the election!”

          The can needs to be kicked far enough down the road that we can get back to skimming Reuters and PRNewsire for interesting news about the actions of companies again, rather than monitoring FreeRepublic and DailyKos to track the blatherings of demagogues on the Hill.

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  3. Mr. President

    Do you take Vicodin recreationally?

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  4. xxxHuggieBearxxx
    xxxHuggieBearxxx

    Can you imagine that these idiots are all taking us the way of Greece, but by choice? I’ll be shocked if they don’t resolve this.

    At the end of the day, I believe a compromise solution passed by the more moderate parts of both parties will be passed, allowing the insane wing of the republican party to oppose with their protest vote (since they’ve back themselves into a corner and can’t do much else at this point).

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    • JakeGint

      The bond market obviously does not see a default looming, so stop talking that garbage. What we are trying to do is prevent a real life default, not this kabuki bullshit Reid and Obama are using to scare-lie to the Seniors about.

      You want to be Japan, except without the savings? I’d rather not, if possible.

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      • The Fly

        NOT TRUE. Munis and high yield debt have been getting hammered over the past week.

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        • JakeGint

          Munis are dependent on fed $$, and are NOT purchased by foreigners in the size our Treasuries are. My point is, the bondholders of non-equity linked debt (ie, high yield bonds) are not concerned by this bullscheiss.

          Equities (including equity-debt) are another story.

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          • The Fly

            they will get downgraded.

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          • JakeGint

            Who will? The Treasuries?

            Again, the market votes. So far, they say “treasuries, please.”

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          • The Fly

            That’s the dangerous mindset of you Tea Party people. I want to default, just to teach your IRA a lesson.

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          • JakeGint

            What “dangerous mindset?” All I’m looking at is the tape. What are you looking at? Harry Reid’s press releases? (you’ll want to look at this one too.)

            “The dangerous mindset” is that of those who throw their vote away in pique because someone at a cocktail party said “gee, isn’t that guy we know nothing about so glib and eloquent? Let’s vote for him, as it’ll probably NOT be a total effing disaster.”

            Thanks be that most of the country got off that Bandwagon O’ Stupid in 2010. Hence our current impasse.

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          • JakeGint

            LOL. Looks like the Fly has the “vengeful commie” vote in hand at least.

            Congrats on that.

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          • The Fly

            I don’t go to cock parties.

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          • Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
            Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

            Exactly. Everybody wants to throw hot slices of pizza at people of different ideologies, or their IRAs, to teach them a lesson. No one wants to come together to find a solution that everyone can live with, even if it isn’t exactly 100% what any one group wanted. You can’t solve problems by saying No to other people. Eventually you have to build some solution. And if it is a solution for an entire country, it’s going to require cooperation among people.

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          • JakeGint

            Agreed, but the math is still inexorable. We can all sing kumbaya, but the math does not give a shit about kumbaya.

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      • xxxHuggieBearxxx
        xxxHuggieBearxxx

        didn’t i say I would be shocked if they didn’t resolve it? I don’t believe the hype, either. It’s all bullshit.

        But here’s the deal – if indeed it is the “will of the people” to dramatically reduce spending and keep tax revenues the same, then use the legislative process and political leadership to develop the necessary public support, change the applicable laws and tax codes, and set America on a new path.

        Man up and get it done the right way, not through legislative terrorism by threatening to have the United States default on its debt obligations. If it is indeed “the will of the people”, then it should be doable.

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        • JakeGint

          Don’t you get it? The only way to do that is by ejecting Obama, as he will not go along with it, no way.

          You’d probably also need the Senate, although that’s a lesser problem given the current numbers. That can’t happen until 2012.

          You want to wait another almost 2 years and hope interest rates don’t come back and our sovereign credit remains good? I would say the 2010 elections say the “will of the people” says, “start yesterday.”

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            the people will be voting out incumbents and ignoring Tea Party candidates seeking those in favor of limited terms … all the Pubes want now is to tie Obama presidency with their 6 month reviews in an attempt to get him out …. No way the Dems or Obama pass that “Suicide Ceiling” crap. Time for the Pubes to face reality with the LT plan and even add some revenue … The Tea Party Wingnuts are still the tail wagging the dog …. What’s wrong with Bohner? Cat got his tongue? Letting these freshman congressman push him around …. Man up Boner!

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          • JakeGint

            The Pubes?

            What grade are you in?

            All the Republicans want to do is cut spending. The only way to do that is to keep Obama’s feet to the fire.

            There is no other way, as he wants to kick the can down the road so he doesn’t have to address it over the next 18 months.

            There’s a way to do that… cut spending NOW, not bind Congress ten years from now (which he knows very well, from kabukis long past, they CANNOT do anyway).

            So not only is he advocating kicking the can, he is in fact, advocating not doing anything at all.

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          • JakeGint

            Jeez, the commies have enterered the building I guess. 5 thumbs up for a childish rant? And not one negative?

            These are trying times, but I’ll keep trying.

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          • Duh

            Are you serious? You actually think Republicans give a shit about cutting spending?

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          • JakeGint

            Right, they don’t.

            They’re just putting their political nuts on the line for shits and giggles.

            What planet are you people living on?

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          • Indie

            “Compromise is when one person wants to rob a bank and the other person does not, and they compromise to rob a person outside of the bank.”

            Christopher Myers

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            Where were you and the “PUBES” before Obama became POTUS? Never heard a squeak out of you while your party was spending out tax $ hand over fist while simultaneously giving themselves tax cuts …. You had no concern for the country or it’s citizens then. What’s changed? We got a black liberal POTUS and you can’t bear it anymore? Paaleeaase!

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          • Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
            Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

            How ’bout we try for a negotiation with Jake here, Teahouse? We stop calling his party Pubes if , in return, he’ll stop calling us Commies? I’m particularly bothered by that because I am not even Liberal. I see myself as fairly near to the Center of the political spectrum.

            I’m willing to do my part here. What about you?

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          • JakeGint

            Thanks frog, but I figure he can call me anything he wants if it makes him feel better.

            Teahouse… take a look at what the Republican budget deficits looked like up until Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid took over Congress.

            Then mark what it looked like after that point. Yeah, people bitched about deficits when the GOP was in power, and I was one of them. But they were not TWO TRILLION a year deficits back then.

            Do you get the difference?

            Enough is enough. Saying “you didn’t say anything about deficits then” doesn’t sway the math either.

            The math will win.

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            Jake, this administration was hogtied from day one with an impending depression … you really wanted them to reign in spending as soon as they took office. Sure you can moan about the healthcare bill but everyone knows that if you want to accomplish something you need to do it right away while you have that mandate or it never gets done. So get past Obama’s priority and move on … the rest of his spending has been on war and depression related expenditures and a loss of revenues to extend your Bush Tax cuts, which I’ll remind you, have yet to provide the job growth that you so emphatically proclaimed from your “job creators” a la Julie Andrews in the Sound of Music. Well, the Hills aren’t Alive … what happened? We need more tax cuts?

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            I adopted “Pubes” as a short cut to typing “Republicans” on every comment and since Jake insists on calling anyone left of conservative “Commies” it’s a term I find justified in using for Jake’s Party without hitting below the belt to the bag [homo] like others here.

            That said, when he drops the “commies” for more than a day, I’ll do likewise and drop “Pubes.” Let’s see if he is capable ….

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          • JakeGint

            Commies is at least only an ironic exaggeration of your socialist beliefs, Teahouse.

            “Pubes” — on the other hand — just makes you look like a pimpled teenager. What relationship has it to anything save your babyish concentration on male genitalia? You really think it’s better than “Teabagger/ing?” Not much.

            You do whatever you like. All we have here is our words to back us on these here internets.

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            So you refuse to drop commies like some Tea Bag poked Bohner … My shorthaired pubes live on …. Little schoolgirl.

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          • Pete

            hey Jake your living in a dreamworld and drinking all the kool-aid if you think all republicans want to do is cut spending.

            they want to get obama out of office. No matter what the cost.

            Forgive me for not knowing this but Republicans held the white house, Senate and House when Bush was in office. (actually I do know the answers)

            Question, Did they spend beyond the fiscal limits?
            Did they grow govt?
            Did they raise the debt ceiling?

            Yes or No answers will do. No explanations. Just yes and no. Jake I would prefer you answer the questions.

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          • JakeGint

            Of course they did. We were fighting two wars and recession. All ok’d by Congress I might add (unlike Libya). We also had 4% growth for most of that time. You think that makes a difference?

            So yeah, we were growing the debt, and people were grumbling about it, even on the GOP side. Do you recall Porkbusters?

            And yes, of course you have to have Obama out, as his penchant for reckless spending and oppressive regulatory regime are twin hammers on the economy when it’s struggling to get back to its feet. Do you think our high unemployment and meager growth rates are possiblty related to the European social structure we’ve begun to adopt?

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            Obama is fighting three wars and depression …. Hello?

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            and again … where are all these jobs that your “job creators” were gonna create once the Bush Tax Cuts were extended …. BS!

            Maybe another poster was right … the GOP long term plan has been to reduce taxes and overspend till the budget was busted to get to their ultimate goal … self induced smaller gov’t.

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          • JakeGint

            How’s he fighting a depression?

            By imposing incredibly expensive National healthcare on our one healthy economic sector?

            By signing trillion dollar stimulus bills that are nothing but transfer payments to public service unions in the states?

            The Bush tax cuts (to answer for the tenth time your query below) created millions of jobs back in 2003-07. If you recall, that’s when they were signed.

            That’s how it works Teahouse. You cut taxes, and you get jobs, you INCREASE taxes (like Obama just did w. Obamacare) and you lose jobs.

            Voila! 10% unemployment. And KEEPING the Bush tax cuts is merely NOT increasing taxes, it’s not cutting shit! So STFU about it already!

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            Every president gets his pet project … healthcare was his, move on!

            I agree that infrastructure spending in lieu of transfers to the states would have been much more desirable and efficient.

            Jobs … that was then (2003-07′) this is now. Your argument last Dec was we needed those extended tax cuts for job creation and last I checked they are still hiding out some where and it’s mid 2011 … What happened? Now you go drink some more kool-aid and STFU wingnut!!!

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  5. TraderCaddy

    If I was Jeremy I would steer clear of Fly today.
    Sounds like Fly just received a bill for some software work.

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  6. speedius

    You should farm it all out to India. You may need a new url though. I see that iambankingcoin.com is still available.

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  7. Yabollox

    Moody’s , Fitch, S&P…. they seemed to know a lot about the AAA rated CDOs.

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  8. Quint

    The big disappointment is that even after a crappy compromise by August 2, this issue is not going to be solved and is not going to go away for a long, long, time.

    Did you see all the big protests in the streets on DC? Nope.

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    • JakeGint

      Eggsactly. More can kicking, more fan dancing, until finally, there’s just no more road left. You’ll see the Greek mobs in the street then.

      And I don’t mean Astoria, Queens, either.

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      • Quint

        Not in our lifetime. as long as the cable is on and McDonalds is stil serving.

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        • JakeGint

          What happens when they cut the cable off and there’s no cash for McDonald’s?

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          • The Fly

            COMMY BASTARD

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          • Quint

            That’s not going to happen.

            But if it did maybe we’d get the big fat fuckers to riot in the streets and possibly solve our obesity problem and then save Medicare/Medicaid trillions in the process.

            But most likely, they would just move on to Popeye’s Chicken and Fios, which has 5-9’s reliability.

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          • JakeGint

            If everyone was healthy you’d cost Medicare/Medicaid even more, treating 100 year old geriatrics who want new knees and hips.

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          • FIG

            Speaking of new knees and hips. MAKO is down a lot from its highs.

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          • NWO club,you're not invited
            NWO club,you're not invited

            I want me-maw to turn in her electric wheelchair pronto! What, you can’t push a wheelchair around?…Send that f’er back to the Scooter Store… Those little al qaeda children running around don’t just blow up by themselves.

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  9. Wilco

    Jeremy rules his domain with a gold plated pocket protector.

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  10. Ron Paul

    only foolish men buy this market in July and august. Too bad you haven’t learned ur lesson yet. Volatility and downside is better in these months.

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  11. Ron Paul

    my fair warning Mr. Fly, be long the TBT immediately and short bonds. Interest rates historically tick up in these months and this even will mark the bottom for interest rates.

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  12. Quint

    I think everyone already knows what’s going to happen. That’s why this rally got sold today.

    Yes vote in House, No vote in Senate, compromise, compromise, compromise. Everyone comes out holding hands singing kum-bay-yah, Boehner cries, and then the market sells off because the plan didn’t fix any of our real problems and we have to keep hearing about this shit for the next 10 years.

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    • Indie

      “Compromise makes a good umbrella, but a poor roof; it is temporary expedient, often wise in party politics, almost sure to be unwise in statesmanship.”

      – James Russell Lowell

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  13. Quint

    Sorry, forgot to add this part…

    Politicians are Scumbags.

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    • Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
      Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

      And then what are the folks who elected them?

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      • TraderCaddy

        Scumbag enablers.

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      • Yabollox

        We all like our own scumbag, so he/she/it can keep seniority and outscumbag the other scumbags.

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    • alf44

      “Boehner cries”

      Hey !

      He’s a sensitive guy ! LOL

      .

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  14. Bullish

    I equate the Tea Party movement to the Macarena…

    It had a cool beat and was a fun dance for awhile until everyone looked around and realized how stupid of an idea this was.

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    • Yogi & Boo Boo

      I once programmed a robot to dance the Macarena. Does that count for anything?

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      • HalfBloodPope

        Did you get paid 150 dollars an hour?

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        • Yogi & Boo Boo

          No my old rate was $250, but then all of my work got outsourced to foreign lands for $20.

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      • Xmas_Ninja

        I’m doing the Macarena right now to SanFranTiesto. Speaking of the Macarena, I been too scared to go to Governors Island for the likes of Avicii, Boris and Olivia Newton John. To understand why the fear, go to the ferry terminal in August and check out the crowd lined up for ruling hipster Bassnectar. I did get up the courage to attend one of their bass thumping flambangos earlier this summer. Everyone really dug my ninja outfit, despite the fact that in a unitard one cannot display the tops of one’s underwear. Anywho, feeling confident, I bust out some Hammer and told everyone about my WNR. I still got it.

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    • JakeGint

      Getting our house into some semblance of fiscal order before we lose our top dog economic and sovereign credit status is a stupid idea?

      Maybe you stick to the Latin Dance crazes.

      _________

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      • Bullish

        No just the part that we will not negotiate and hold the entire country hostage with the debt ceiling – that’s the stupid idea.

        Dressing in 1700’s costumes was kinda stupid too, but that’s a different subject.

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        • JakeGint

          What do you mean not negotiate? What have the Dems even offered in tangible cuts? A tangible bill? The GOP has put forth two bills thus far. The first, the Cap, Cut and Balance bill is supported by almost 80% of the electorate. It lost in the Senate by four votes on mostly partly lines.

          Howabout not getting a budget from the Senate in 820+ days?? Do you pay any attention whatsoever or do you just listen for the CBS News headlines and go from there?

          _________

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        • Yabollox

          Let’s just keep on spending 40% debt. Right now Fed spending is 60% tax revenues/40% borrowing. I don’t think that can continue much longer. Do we just side with the demos and keep expanding debt? Keep raising debt limits indefinitely?

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            Stop fighting multiple wars, reign in the defense spending, bring back Clinton era taxes and cut across the board 2-5%

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          • JakeGint

            Your last point is the biggest unicorn of all. They won’t even cut one penny. I would even agree to one and two, but recall what I just said about just freezing spending at these levels?

            That — in Washington speak — is considered a CUT of $10 trillion. So if we actually cut spending (in the real usage of “cut”) we’d be well north of that $10 trillion number… but can you imagine your party agreeing to that when they screech about $1 trillion in actual slowed spending (again, called a “cut” even though its not)?

            Can you imagine them acceding to that, ever?

            __________

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          • TeahouseOnTheTracks
            TeahouseOnTheTracks

            It’s not my party (Independent) … and 2-5% cuts to prior budgets are real cuts. And raising taxes to Clinton era is real reoccurring revenue. And when the economy picks up steam tax revenue will flow … we just need to cap budgets when the revenues start flowing in so the GOP doesn’t start another war.

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          • JakeGint

            They may be real cuts, but they won’t do them. Not real not fake, not any. That’s problem number one.

            As for your other stuff, your friend Obama (your as independent as Northern Ireland) just started a stupid war in Libya over which we have far less connection than even Iraq or Afghanistan.

            Is that the kind of thing you are talking about?

            _____

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          • Indie

            jake? your?

            wtf is going on?

            you need to slow down. think twice and come back in better shape.

            BTW, gadaffi (the richest african still in dictatorial duties) deserves all the tomahawk on his knob he can get.

            next stop syria!!

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        • texasradio

          My question to all the big spenders: When do you draw the line? According to Krugman – paraphrasing – we wait till we get a recovery and then everybody will magically turn fiscally prudent while Geither rides off on a unicorn into a rainbow enframed sunset amidst pots of gold.

          Never happen. It’s tea time, now.

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          • WTF

            When GDP gap is closed and it will be the REAL economic constraints which won’t let to spend more without causing (demand-driven) inflation. Up to that point it is the G who must support the aggregate demand from collapsing because C don’t spend and corporations (I) prefer not to invest. The fiscal policy has to be be pro-cyclical. Loose during recessions and tight during booms.

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          • Indie

            now that is proper math.

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          • Yogi & Boo Boo

            @tex – that’s not how it works. During good times you are supposed to run surpluses, so you can afford to run deficits during the down years. It takes discipline. Maybe it’s something no politician can muster. Oh wait…

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          • texasradio

            That’s exactly how it works. Witness both the present and the past. The entire Keynes concept is a joke. “Loose during recessions and tight during booms.” Where do I find a real life example of this policy?

            Ultimately, the Keynesian cries of “aggregate demand” will, and are, failing.

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          • JakeGint

            Keynes never meant for the spending to continue. Politicians only like that part… the belt tightening he also demanded?

            Not so much.

            ______

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    • The Plumbers Crack
      The Plumbers Crack

      I got my wife pregnant to that song, and had the cute little crackster!

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  15. Wilco

    This ends with Obama giving himself executive order….the way it was planned from the beginning.

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  16. The_Real_Hmmm

    Science degrees are getting some good much needed support in America. As long as the demand feeds the oncoming supply it should be beneficial. For those of you who actually read the 2012 Budget from Obama et al and are not throwing popcorn at the tv screen from the luxury of your rattan patio chair, he’s all about STEM. Over the next decade the plan is to prepare 100,000 science, technology, engineering, and mathematics teachers to work at various levels in the education system (10,000 over the next two years).

    I personally have worked with two universities (one public, the other private) that have already built massive “STEM Centers” on their campuses.

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    • The_Real_Hmmm

      Management: Please un-moderate my last comment.

      Thanks.

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      • razorsedge

        try ringing the bell at the front desk,,ask for carlton

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    • Yabollox

      Stem centers are all well and good, but they don’t produce anything, grow anything, manufacture anything, harvest anything or mine anything.

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      • The_Real_Hmmm

        But IP is the driver for all of that. The government, perhaps to their chagrin, decides who produces what by way of corporate regulation/taxation/etc. Intangibles CAN carry greater value than their counterparts. This is long-term big picture thinking. I agree with his directives.

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      • WTF

        This initiative increases productivity, which is (together with labor and capital) the most important factor in long-term GDP growth.

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        • JakeGint

          Does it increase productivity efficiently?

          I highly doubt it. Let the professionals invest in net present value positive projects, and let’s not have the government getting involved in it.

          ________

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          • JakeGint

            I may have misunderstood your comment. I was talking about gov’t sponsored “innovation” projects.

            I do agree that innovation that builds productivity is the largest engine of growth and living standard improvement.

            _________

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    • texasradio

      Ridiculous. The former Soviet Union had scientists out the yang. It didn’t save them from collapse and arguably didn’t even bring them many innovations. They relied on the KGB for those.

      Central planning doesn’t work.

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      • JakeGint

        Unbelieveable you got for downthumbs for that.

        Sigh… I hope it’s just the Euro crowd checking in after the pub….

        _________

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        • WTF

          Because he twisted the facts. The Soviet Union had brilliant scientists. Unfortunately they were mostly employed in VPK (military industry complex) and were of limited practical use for productivity growth of the country’s economy as a whole. However the main difference was not even this, but lack of “operational improvement specialists”, that is people who would further develop production technologies. Yes, the country had both factors of production, that is labor, and capital. What it didn’t have was the technology–the most important of them. And that lack was due to deficiency of the centrally-planned approach to the economy. So, it is really incorrect to compare Obama’s initiative with the situation in the Soviet Union.

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          • JakeGint

            It’s just a matter of degree, isn’t it?

            How could we be so arrogant as to claim that the Soviet Union just wasn’t doing their central planning the right way, and we’ve got the right way in our pocket?

            Are you fucking kidding me? There’s is no “central” way to innovation. It’s an arduous process made up of millions and millions of mistakes and occasional sparks of brilliance. You think that shit can be PLANNED?

            That is staggering.

            And listen, the Soviets made some decent weapons! That’s because at least that part of their central planning had a pretty narrow focus. Can you imagine blanket “innovation” brought to you by your friendly central government?

            Oy!

            ____________

            ____________

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          • Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
            Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

            I am not a fan of central planning in most ways. However, it seems to be working for China, which now owns the “capitalist” U.S., of all the bizarre examples of Truth Is Stranger than FIction things in the world.

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          • Yogi & Boo Boo

            Jake wins this one hands down. No time to get into details, but I know a large number of former citizens of the USSR. All with advanced degrees. The stories of the stupidity of central planning I have heard are beyond belief. It makes anything we do here that is called socialism look like absolute raw free market capitalism.

            There were some positives. Actually there were some things that the average citizen did not need to worry about. But there is no argument here. Ronald Reagan was seen as an Russian hero by the people I know.

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          • Indie

            true only partly. i have issue with the word planning. a bit of reinforced behavior isn’t necessarily “planning”.

            a little bit of central “steering” doesn’t equate failure. it has equate failure in heavy handed totalitarian regimes. success stories abound. the greatest being putting a man on the moon.

            done right, governments can promote research and innovation. it has been done successfully many times throughout history. especially where the ROI is too long a term for an individual or a corporation. sometime it so abstract there’s no ROI. it’s all advancement of mind. it has no monetary value but has an extraordinary value to mankind.

            i think, governing bodies should reinforce behaviors that favour the greater goods… and be as light handed as possible.

            btw, soviets had kick ass mathematicians. still today. and probably the best writers in history. but i digress.

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          • Yogi & Boo Boo

            I agree the gov. (sorry I’m mobile now) should fund research both basic and applied as well as projects that have no present economic return like space and undersea exploration.

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          • go2mars

            I fervently agree with that!

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      • go2mars

        War and lack of incentive overshadowed the positive gains in the case of Russia. But the farmer who now had gasoline instead of a horse to plow his field probably felt different. Until he was shot.

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  17. Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
    Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

    The problem is that we are so polarized as a country that we have lost our ability to come together and do practical problem solving. Everyone says “It’s my ideological way or the highway.” Divide and Conquer works completely.

    Why is this so? And who is dividing and conquering us? To answer that question, ask yourself “Who benefits, if ordinary citizens and taxpayers are divided, from one another, rather than united?”

    Interestingly, each political ideology has a different answer to that question. So I suggest we not look into ideology for the answer but into facts, such as where the bulk of the taxpayer’s money is actually going

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    • JakeGint

      Well yeah, but geez…. Math has to come into it as some point.

      Do you realize that if we merely said “Let’s keep spending at THESE LEVELS (2011) right here for the next ten years” (in other words not increased any budgets for 10 years), that would be scored by the CBO as a nearly TEN TRILLION dollar spending cut?

      And that’s not really cutting anything!

      So you can see, all this talk about “one trillion over ten years” is nothing but a piss in the bucket. It will mean NOTHING but “kick the can” one more time. And yet STILL the Dems are crying about even those tiny levels.

      The math is coming, folks… you cannot escape the math.

      ___________

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      • Yogi & Boo Boo

        Frog has a good point. We will need to do a lot of work to get things under control. I don’t see how we will be able to do it if we’re all screaming at each other and calling each other names. But that’s just me. I have friends on both sides of the aisle and across the political spectrum. We can always discuss without throwing pizza at each other.

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      • razorsedge

        obama is doing his best, 2 divide imho

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        • Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
          Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

          All politicians are part of the end RESULT of the Divide and Conquer strategy. I am talking about the CAUSE.

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      • go2mars

        The guys who own the fucking central banks are the benefactors of divide and conquer. Call it conspiracy if you want, to which the proper response is “fuck you silly bitch, it’s real and you should go learn about it”.

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    • Yabollox

      Good pointy there about polarized country. I think now we have polarized media outlets. You can follow your own ideological slanted media and get total confirmation of your own views. No need to listen to and consider other ideas.

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  18. The_Real_Hmmm

    Science degrees are getting some good much needed support in America. As long as the demand feeds the oncoming supply it should be beneficial. For those of you who actually read the ’12 Budget from Obama et al and are not throwing popcorn at the tv screen from the luxury of your rattan patio chair, he’s all about STEM. Over the next decade the plan is to prepare 100K science, technology, engineering, and mathematics teachers to work at various levels in the education system (10K over the next two years).

    I personally have worked with two universities (one public, the other private) that have already built massive “STEM centers” on their campuses.

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    • JakeGint

      Sounds to me like a sweet deal for the NEA.

      But I’m cynical that way when it comes to large top down gov’t “projects.” They should not be in the business of guiding industrial policy.
      ___________

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      • Yogi & Boo Boo

        You mean projects like the Internet? 😉

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        • JakeGint

          The internet was not developed originally to do what it does today. That took innovators who built upon a project specifically meant for… wait for iiiiiit……

          DEFENSE.

          Okay, you got me, don’t cut defense spending. 😉

          ________

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          • WTFdoiknow

            So we cut all social programs, but increase military expenditures? What’s your next suggestion, invade Canada to provide more Lebensraum?

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          • go2mars

            You already own us. What do you think would happen if Canada decided to stop shipping oil and gas south? You’d drum up a patriotic excuse to “go Libya” on us. That’s what.

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          • Yogi & Boo Boo

            It’s never easy, is it?

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      • The_Real_Hmmm

        I agree with you Jake, but consider the fact that this directive should have the effect of strengthening logical and critical thinking abilities in K-12 students, all prior to secondary schooling. These are essential human tools that cross many professions not directly involved with STEM.

        The questions thus evolve into, does our nation become more mechanical and banal in nature because students are diverted from creativity, how do logic and creativity interact, and will schools maintain or also encourage study of literature/social studies/art in the same manner as science. Bottom line is that improved education should not be a bad thing for society.

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        • The_Real_Hmmm

          Un-moderate please. I posted the same thing twice, so just un-moderate one. Thanks.

          Does the comment system hate the acronym or something? Maybe you should hire a software engineer to fix it.

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      • The_Real_Hmmm

        I agree with you Jake, but consider the fact that this directive should have the effect of strengthening logical and critical thinking abilities in kindergarten through high school students, all prior to secondary schooling. These are essential human tools that cross many professions not directly involved with stem.

        The questions thus evolve into, does our nation become more mechanical and banal in nature because students are diverted from creativity, how do logic and creativity interact, and will schools maintain or also encourage study of literature/social studies/art in the same manner as science. Bottom line is that improved education should not be a bad thing for society.

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      • Bond Troll

        Or perhaps you’re referring to the Manhattan Project

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        • JakeGint

          Another DEFENSE project.

          Got anything from say….. the Department of Eductation?

          Agriculture?

          Health and Human Services?

          I’ll give Transportation the highway system (again, constitutionally contemplated… amazing those Founders, no?), but take away for MARAD.

          __________

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          • Yogi & Boo Boo

            HHS has National Institutes of Health.

            NSF gives Boo Boo commercial free (practically) science shows on PBS.

            NOAA – Weather satellites

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  19. gustl67

    why borrow money from the FED, why taking on debts and debts and sebts ??

    congress has the right to issue silver dollars … so do that and burn the fucking paper !

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    • razorsedge

      14 trillion dollars in silver is a lot to carry in one pocket.

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  20. Testicules

    I’m sure there will be a late night night phone call to Opra before any real choice is made

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  21. Ron Paul

    lick a nut WTF

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  22. stosh

    we go much lower…. enjoy

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  23. HalfBloodPope

    If a pair of testicles are chopped off but no one is around to hear the screams do I make a sound?

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  24. wilmer

    YES WE CAN

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  25. panamaorange

    “Debt Fallout: Even Market Pros Don’t Know What to Do”

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/43932320

    I know exactly what these “pros” will do. Start chasing long, but late in the move. After a SPY bounce to 133 or so. Just like they’ve been doing for 2 years.

    Getting spooked out by some scare story every summer, then jumping back in too late, and underperforming the market. No wonder hedge funds are collapsing. Too slow, and lazy to keep up with this new whipsaw market

    All these “trust fund baby” fund managers are too lazy to keep up with the whipsaw in this market
    They work about 4 hours a day, take 3 hour lunches, and 5 month summer vacations

    I hope they all get shoved out the door, and replaced with a new breed of people that actually work and focus. We should outsource the ENTIRE fund manager industry to an overseas country with actual work ethic

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  26. razorsedge

    real humm, i agree that we need to educate more. we r going threw a techno revolution but we havent educated enough people to move up. so the jobs are there but no one to fill. were all going paperless so what happens to the paper makers, delivery guy, salesman ect. just 1 example. there r many. if u go to the car manufacture there r many robots instead of people..and so on

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    • The_Real_Hmmm

      The tech revolution is still infant but has matured a ton over the past 50 years. We are in the beginning of the information age now. People always find a way to build and fill new jobs because there is a need to survive through compensation in a wide diversity of commodities. You must be adaptable. Massive sustained unemployment over a long period will not happen unless capitalism ceases and lethargy prevails.

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      • razorsedge

        im talkin in the last 10 yrs

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        • go2mars

          If only we could all be cavemen again with low technology and the non-specialization of roles. It would so much more fair and equal. Then we could really have great lives as generalists (searching for food, fights, and pussy) without all the modern distractions like finding better and more efficient ways to use people and resources for the benefit of mankind.

          Science and technology (even robot car makers) = your friend.

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  27. yxd0018

    DECK earning seems bad from AH price action

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  28. razorsedge

    http://www.wtfnoway.com/ for all u guys who dont think we have a spending problem,

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  29. theedge111

    I love it when the Fly goes postal.

    The anger creates brilliant commentary. A tip of the top hat to you Fly.

    Watching these fucktards in DC tear apart this once great country is a sight to see.

    I can’t figure out which party is more retarded.

    WAshington DC is nothing but one gigantic failure. The reality here is the cuts that have to be made in order to keep us whole are so brutal that no one has the balls to just do it.

    The PAIN must be taken. Austerity is a certainty at this point and it’s going to crush the consumer and our economy.

    If we don’t take the pain in the form of severe cuts then the market is going to do it for us.

    Get prepared for a lost decade.

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    • razorsedge

      if we dont do someting now, we wil have a harder path later. (greese)

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    • Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
      Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

      Washington D.C. is not a failure. It is a great success. Special Interest Groups buy polticians and get governemnt contracts or get bailed out when they almost go bankrupt. It’s just a different sort of stock exchange where politicians and legislation are bought and sold. It is highly successful. Special Interest Groups pour more and more money into the Legislation Stock Exchange all the time. And the value of their investments keeps growing, because the Special Interest Groups keep stealing more and more taxpayer dollars. This stock exchange is booming. How can you say it’s a failure?

      Oh, did you think it had something to do with keeping the country solvent or functional? Not so.

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  30. TraderCaddy

    “…fucking software engineers…are feeling all high and mighty now, billing out $150 per hour….”

    In my lawyer days the pride of the profession would almost always get a client by understating the hourly (mostly to insurance companies) rate and then actually bill out at a “higher effective” rate.
    How so?
    Merely by working 25 hours a day.
    It’s a little game that even the clients were aware of but they could always show their supervisors how much they saved the client in the negotiated rate. I seem to recall the law schools teaching this in the Legal Ethics and Professional Responsibility class ( not really).

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  31. Raise taxes, Cut spending
    Raise taxes, Cut spending

    RE: “politicians are scumbags.”

    The electorate cannot handle the truth. That is why the only way a politician can get elected is by lying/spinning/misleading the voters.

    Would you vote for someone who told you that things are going in the toilet and the only way out will involve a lot of people losing their jobs? How do you think Bush got in? By repeating over and over: ‘We are going to cut everyone’s taxes and we are all going to get rich”. I am still surprised at how many people still believe that.

    Of course, the situation is not helped by the complete corruption of the media by (pick one or all)

    1: Owners using media properties as a personal mouthpiece.

    2: Owners putting advertising revenues ahead of journalistic integrity.

    3: Blurring of the line between editorializing and reporting.

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  32. j

    Fly

    Even if everything you say about the Tea party is true and some of them are off their fucking tree like for instance Ron Paul wanting to close the Federal Reserve, there are enough votes from the rest of the GOP and the Dems to pass this. You should not left the Demolition party off the hook that easily, as those fuckers deserve a serious whipping every hour of the day.

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    • razorsedge

      sorry j didnt mean the t-down was movin the mouse…

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    • derrr

      Actually he said in an interview he recognizes you can’t just close the fed in one term and would instead open up more competition and have competing currencies.

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    • go2mars

      Have you read his book “End the Fed”?

      Didn’t think so.

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      • Indie

        it’s written like a children book for retarded grown-ups with no formal education in macroeconomics.

        stop your wishful thinking and live the life you were given.

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        • go2mars

          I actually haven’t read it either, but am familiar with central banking (globally), how the system works, and why, how “money” is created, the implications of interest and inflation, the true nature of “the business cycle”, and the primary goals of the few shareholders of central banks globally. I recognize how politics, military campaigns, illicit drug trade, Bernaysian forces, slanted history, and education curriculums are wielded against everybody by the Banksters. I’ll give the benefit of the doubt about the book, but I sure like the title!

          btw. Don’t be an ass.

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          • go2mars

            Awaiting moderation? Interesting. Am I correct in assuming why?

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  33. riggedgame

    You dumfuks don’t understand that any “plan” to reduce deficits hatched up in 2 days by some
    Tanned Golfing Drunkard (was Boner dipped in tea?) is NOT going to fix our budget. Especially
    since it is not enforceable on future legislators.

    Just pass a CLEAN goddamn debt ceiling hike. STOP linking budgets and debt ceilings!

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    • JakeGint

      It’s about credibility, plain and simple. If Congress makes NO move whatsoever to address this problem after making a big deal about it, they bond markets will make us pay. The Republicans are the only ones taking the issue even half- seriously.

      And you are correct, current Congresses cannot bind future Congresses. You should get together with your politcal buddy Teahouse at the junior high dance tonight and discuss elementary civics so he can understand why Obama can so painlessly offer “post 2012 cuts” of a dubious nature.

      __________

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      • riggedgame

        “Credibility”? From the Tan Man and the party that ran up $11 trillion of out $14 trillion debt?

        Be serious, Jake.

        The markets and the ratings agencies are NOT as dumb as your Fox Newsed Rednecks.

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        • TeahouseOnTheTracks
          TeahouseOnTheTracks

          Clinton is the only Dem POTUS prior to Obama dating back to Reagan when the spending ensued yet Jake and the Pubes want to blame all the spending on the Dems. Mind you, Clinton ended his presidency with a SURPLUS and Obama inherited a GOP induced DEPRESSION but Jake wants to blame the dems who controlled the house for one term.

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          • derrr

            Clinton only had his “spending in check” because he spent the social security trust frund (or at minimum admitted there was none), created IRAs so people would pay more taxes now (but not later unlike 401ks which were the opposite) and used enron accounting to manipulate the official numbers producing a temporary boost in revenue. Meanwhile he left the markets at their all time inflation adjusted high and things have never recovered since then. I suppose policies that have a long term effect have nothing to do with that.

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          • riggedgame

            Yeah. Tell us another one. Like Bush the Moron didn’t parade around with
            four dollar bills in his hand, yapping “I’m gonna use ONE of these from our surplus,
            to give y’all a $1.4 trillion tax cut”!

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          • derrr

            Oh, and I’m sure the US GDP in relationship to the global GDP gaining value until it peaked in the 50s had nothing to do with the fact that less than 5% of americans paid any taxes at all until the year 1940. /sarcasm

            Low taxes and low spending are the reason why you have production in the private economy. However, I admit that you cannot easily get back to a small government and booming eonomy without a lot of pain one way or another, even if you wanted to

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          • JakeGint

            Eggsactly. But a further lurch toward Euro socialism is not only bad for us in our present state — it’s bad for the Euro socialists!

            (Who depend on us for military protection which we soon won’t be able to afford, not to mention 99% of all healthcare innovation, since we used to not have nationalized HC).

            _________

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          • JakeGint

            AGAIN, with the Clinton bullshit.

            Clinton had to be beaten about the head and face and wrestled to the ground and put in an asphyxiating choke hold in order to get him to sign the REPUBLICAN (or “Pubes” in your baby talk) Budgets that balanced the budget by late 1999 (mostly thanks to the HUGE TAX CUT delivered on capital gains during the biggest boom since radio).

            DO YOU DEMS EVEN KNOW HOW YOUR GOVERNMENT WORKS?

            “Independent” my left titty! Lol.

            ____________

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        • razorsedge

          the same rating agency that gave morgages aaa ratings.

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        • JakeGint

          Where do you get “11 trillion” from?

          Besides your ass, I mean?

          You do know that Congress is responsible for the budget right? I am dealing with that level of sentience… or no?

          _______

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      • TeahouseOnTheTracks
        TeahouseOnTheTracks

        You don’t have to start the name calling again Jake just cause you’re a wingnut and I’m a little left of middle independent …. very lame!

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        • derrr

          lol a little?

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        • JakeGint

          Pretty ironic coming from the one who can’t wait to write “Pubes” again.

          The “independent” junior high schooler, of course.

          LOL.

          ________

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          • Indie

            the last sentence make you sound really mature.

            move on and stop calling people commies because they don’t agree with your views.

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        • go2mars

          I don’t understand how anyone, regardless of political stripes, can believe in their heart that spending vastly more than income is a good thing on any but the very shortest of timescales.

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  34. JakeGint

    Oh, well whaddaya know… the “default issue” was all bullshit all along.

    Who’d a thunk it?

    ________

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    • TeahouseOnTheTracks
      TeahouseOnTheTracks

      we talked about it days ago … deferring non-essential payments to prioritize debt. Nothing new … move along.

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      • JakeGint

        So, the default issue is bullshit, then? Or not?

        Just want to clarify your position since your president from whom you are so independent is claiming Seniors will go hungry as of August 2nd.

        ___________

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      • go2mars

        What do you consider “non-essential payments”?

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  35. chris

    It doesn’t matter what they do tonight or next week. At some point we will default. Whether 2 Aug2011 or 2 Aug 2030. It’s only a matter of time when it all collapses. The question is do you want it to collapse around your children or take the brunt, right here, right now? Maybe even have the balls to begin to fix the problem, right here, right now.

    But no, the Dems and GOP want to keep the party going. They will never do the right thing and cut meaningful spending. Simply, they want to remain in power. Their power base are the ignoramus’ that want government to take care of them. Can’t disappoint the takers.

    This country’s socialist tendencies have destroyed our republic. What do you think is going to happen when 2014 comes and Obamacare is in full force? Oh yes, there will be a reckoning.

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    • riggedgame

      How about raising meaningful taxes, so we have revenues of 25% of GDP, and cut out
      our trillion-dollar-a-year warmongering?

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      • JakeGint

        How does that help the problem?

        You can raise taxes by three times that and you will not pay down the egregious overspending your Dems have got scheduled for the next 20 years (Obamacare and MEdicare not withstanding).

        And do you think employment will pick up when you raise taxes even more and capital says “I’m outta here?”

        Serious question: Do you know how an economy works?

        ______

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        • riggedgame

          I sure as hell DO. Take in $4 trillion (25% of GDP) and save $100 billion on the
          ridiculous wars, and you cover our $3.7 trillion expenditure with $400 billion SURPLUS.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_federal_budget#Total_revenues_and_spending

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          • JakeGint

            Oh, I see, I thought you were talking about making SPENDING 25% of GDP (which is where we are now, hence my confusion).

            You just want to triple income taxes? I get it.

            (check your wiki to see what the amount of income taxes were collected last year)

            _________

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          • riggedgame

            Who said I want to triple income taxes? I said I want Federal REVENUES
            to be 25% of GDP, up from the current 15%. But while we are here,
            it would be a very excellent idea to tax ALL income above $500K at 110%,
            with ZERO deductions and all income including cap gains and munis included
            in income. If they know that they will have income over $500K taxed away,
            maybe the top 1% will pay their workers more, and create jobs.

            What sane person needs more than $40,000 PER MONTH to spend, anyway?

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          • JakeGint

            Thanks for clarifying that you were the insane guy on this blog who was advocating caps above $250k on all income. Good to see you’ve raised to $500k in your generosity.

            Not much of a capitalist, are you Rigged?

            How do you propose increasing Federal Revenues by such an extreme amount? Your communist idea aside, I mean. Give me something that would be passed by more than Bernie Sanders.

            ___________

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          • Belly of the Beast
            Belly of the Beast

            You’re thinking of a highly paid CEO, but the same argument doesn’t hold water for a medium size business or an individual owning a lot of real estate rentals. Those examples create new jobs through demand. Demand such as plumbers, handymen, Home Depot clerks, employees etc. …………… Theres no incentive to expand your business and hire more people, Rigged.

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          • Belly of the Beast
            Belly of the Beast

            and Rigged, you sound like you don’t want anyone to have a 120k car or 3m home, correct ? and those that do, should put their kids in public school , taking the bus in Wrangler Jeans and pocket T shirts ?

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          • riggedgame

            Damn tootin’ on all counts. And BTW: Why does any SANE person need
            more than $40,000 a MONTH to spend?

            And if the “real estate owner” is currently making over $500K, he can merely
            pay his workers more, or hire new employees to drop him under that.

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          • Belly of the Beast
            Belly of the Beast

            Rigged, where do I begin ?

            If you’re living in an expensive home or three, the mortgage would be more than 40 k a month, ask Nicolaus Cage.

            Then you need $85 dollar shirts for each of your kids. Then comes gas, cars, vacations, furniture, istuff, private schools and restaurants.

            Lower their income and you lose jobs in those industries, right ?

            As for killing real estate rental levels ……

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          • go2mars

            What would you do with $40k per month to spend?

            I know what I would do, I would organize people to provide useful services. Employ people in other words. Both directly and indirectly (by purchasing goods made by people at their jobs in factories). If you wanted to tax all of it, and I thought I could still make that much by moving to Bahamas or Paraguay, I would do so and your taxes on my income would go to zero. Capital is globally mobile.

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          • heaterman

            Geez Jake……don’t tell him to check his wiki right here in public!! People will talk!!

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    • razorsedge

      some here dont know we r a republic.

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    • The Equalizer

      “Whether 2 Aug 2011 or 2 Aug 2030. It’s only a matter of time when it all collapses. The question is do you want it to collapse around your children or take the brunt, right here, right now? ”

      Seeing as how I don’t have any kids, I’ll take 2 Aug 2030, if you please. I’ll be well over 48.5 by then, and won’t mind a bit.

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  36. Pooshank

    The people on wall street are typically the ones that pay ridiculous money (150+ / hour) for programmers. I hope you’re not paying that much, Fly. You seem smarter than that. I know plenty of robotic monkeys on speed who will do it for significantly less, possibly including myself.

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  37. Yogi & Boo Boo

    Fly, So what’s the record time to get to 100 comments? We need your software engineer to build a “comment profiler” into your site. It can be a new metric to pitch to your advertisers.

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  38. razorsedge

    acronym, ohio?

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  39. razorsedge

    congress the new mkt makers, short long what ever. there brokers r gettin rich..lol

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  40. TeahouseOnTheTracks
    TeahouseOnTheTracks

    Capitulation … Congressional vote delayed or abandoned?

    Keep the calls coming America … The GOP is starting to get the message.

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  41. razorsedge

    FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE TROUBLE SPELLING*** !!!!TRY THIS!!!!AOCDRNDICG TO RSCHEEARCH AT CMABRIGDE UINERVTISY, IT DSENO’T MTAETR WAHT OERDR THE LTTERES IN A WROD ARE, THE OLNY IPROAMTNT TIHNG IS TAHT THE FRSIT AND LSAT LTEETR BE IN THE RGHIT PCLAE. TIHS IS BCUSEAE THE HUAMN MNID DEOS NOT RAED ERVEY LTETER BY ISTLEF, BUT THE WROD AS A WLOHE. IF YOU CAN RAED TIHS, PSOT IT TO YUOR WLAL. OLNY 55% OF PLEPOE CAN

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    • derrr

      yuro casp lcok is on ddue

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    • Louis Costello

      Hey Mr. RazorsEdge,

      You’re American when you go inna the bathroom, you’re American when you come outta the bathroom,

      What are you innaside the bathroom ?

      EUROPEAN !!! RRR !

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  42. Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
    Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

    138 responses!

    Lots of folks are interested in solving the budget crisis.

    Unfortunately many folks think that the solution to the crisis is to throw hot slices of pizza at each other and to call each other Commies and Pubes.

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    • riggedgame

      I gave you a solution. Raise taxes to 25% of GDP and stop the stupid warmongering.

      AFTER passing a clean Debt Ceiling hike. What more do you want?

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      • JakeGint

        How do you pay for all that spending?

        You think 25% will cover that, easy peasy?

        _____

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        • Calgary G

          Jake, just curious; what is your estimation of the following historical figures:
          -Alexander Hamilton
          -DeWitt Clinton
          -Fiorello La Guardia
          -Robert Moses

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        • JakeGint

          Rigged – are you the guy who was advocating a 100% tax rate over $250,000 earlier in the year?

          ________

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          • riggedgame

            Yeah. $250K would be my first choice; but in the spirit of compromise,
            and for this specific discussion, I TEMPORARILY ramped that up to $500K.

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          • DMG

            Piker.

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          • razorsedge

            but after i buy a new mercedies, and hire a foriegn gardner, pay nanny cause i cant stand kids, i wont have much left for taxes.

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  43. Mrs. Emily Litella
    Mrs. Emily Litella

    Can you please explain to me WHAT all this fuss is over a deck ceiling ? Where is it ? At the White House ?
    Are they saying that it’s going to cost us 14 trillion dollars ? Doesn’t that sound a bit too expensive ? And
    why does Congress have to get involved ? Shouldn’t that be between Mrs. and Mr. Obama ? Really, he
    should leave that decision up to her ………. I remember when our neighbors the Antnees, got a ceiling over
    their deck. I think they paid about 800 dollars but that was 1979 dollars, before they invented inflation.
    Still, they didn’t have to go before Congress, even with all these zoning laws. Good thing, because Mrs. Vecchio would have busted their balloons the whole way. I remember when they wanted a dog …..

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    • razorsedge

      dems and woman like big decks,which inturn requires a bigger ceiling, it gives them a sence of control

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  44. SHOMPY McSHOMPERSON
    SHOMPY McSHOMPERSON

    SHOMP YOU, SHOMP THEM, SHOMP ME!

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  45. FIG

    To anyone that bought GSVC today. Welcome to hell.

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  46. AirCav

    JakeGint- not sure who you are but you get it in droves. All I can say is thanks for educating the masses here.

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  47. NWO club,you're not invited
    NWO club,you're not invited

    Ok for starters…when GE got downgraded from AAA to AA, what happened? Their bonds rallied. They rallied because the negative watch had become an anchor on the credit. Also, the rating was placed back on stable after that.(Obviously, if US got a downgrade AND remained on negative credit watch,then yes you might want to fill the pantry with water and crackers.) Japan bonds have actually gone up in value since they lost their AAA…Now for the bad news,they are I believe 30 corporations that have lower CDS spreads than treasuries. So the petistal is already getting shakey.

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  48. Mr. Bicentennial
    Mr. Bicentennial

    199 th Comment !

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  49. ruggyup

    Having just obtained early release from my oubliette I was stunned to hear that our Glorious Leader’s Press Secretary said the Republican plan, among other things, would destroy Christmas! Small wonder, wise man say The Red Dragon soon to crush the former USofA. Peppered and grilled loin lamb chops and flagons of grand Montrachet will be replaced by dim sum and rice farmed in sewer water. The Fly will be banished to an infected lotus blossom. May impure thoughts be your guide through the turmoil.

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  50. xxxHuggieBearxxx
    xxxHuggieBearxxx

    JakeGint is en fuego!

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  51. JakeGint

    Jobs … that was then (2003-07?) this is now. Your argument last Dec was we needed those extended tax cuts for job creation and last I checked they are still hiding out some where and it’s mid 2011 … What happened? Now you go drink some more kool-aid and STFU wingnut!!!

    Again, I don’t know how I can be more clear with you, Teahouse. It’s like you have a reading comp problem or something. Let me lay it out for you one more time, hoping for clarity:

    In 2003 — Bush’s tax cuts turned the economy around almost immediately. We had growth in the 5-7%+ range in the first few quarters after its passing. We got unemployment DOWN below 5% and to 4% for some part of that.

    Switch to last year, when we are in the midst of 1% growth and worse, thanks to Obamacare and other heavy regulatory burdens imposed by your President and the now thankfully defunct Pelosi Congress. We needed to decide on whether RAISING taxes by getting rid of the Bush tax cuts was a good idea at that point or not.

    Are you with me, Teahouse?

    Tax rates have been the same since 2003, yes? Okay, we’re clear on that. So if we bring rates back to the higher number from before 2003… what are we doing Teahouse?

    We are RAISING TAXES. So, what we did by NOT raising taxes was we KEPT our anemic 1% or so Obama economic growth, and did not go BACK into recession (or NEGATIVE growth), like we would have if he were dumb enough to not sign an extension of the CURRENT rates.

    Can I be any clearer than that? The extension of the Bush tax cuts did not ADD any more money to the private economy like the original cuts did in 2003, they merely stopped the socialists from TAKING MORE OUT.

    Therefore you could never expect job growth from continuing “status quo” — but you could thank God that unemployment wasn’t WORSENED by a foolhardy tax increase.

    Please tell me this is making some vague sense to you, or I shall give up all hope….

    ______________

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    • Donald Ross

      A friend of mine who owns a large franchise of restaurants (over 50 total) was explaining to me how Obamacare is going to force him to either shut down 2/3 of his restaurants or have all of his employees work part time hours. He says there will be a net loss on each restaurant if he has to provide health insurance to all of his employees.

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      • JakeGint

        He should just go to the Emperor and request a Holy Voucher, like Mickey D’s did.

        Oh, you are not from Chicago?

        ________

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    • go2mars

      Just for clarification, how strong would you consider the effect of other economic impacts other than a lower tax rate; things like easier credit and the temporal alignment of a rocketing housing sector? I agree that at all times and in all places lower taxes are better for everyone (with almost no exceptions), but I personally suspect that foolishly loose credit (and the accompanying housing boom) were a bigger economic lever in the 2003-2007 timeframe than lower tax rates. Thoughts?

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  52. The Plumbers Crack
    The Plumbers Crack

    Fly, is this a record for the amount of readers’ posts?

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  53. NWO club,you're not invited
    NWO club,you're not invited

    I forgot what I was going to say

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  54. john1

    these comments are like sifting through shit, way to damn much chaos up in here.

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  55. Vacco

    Jake. Your Thoughts on NUGT please. Hold or buy more?

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  56. Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
    Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

    I am writing a treatise on ideology as a result of what I have learned here and on other sites. Thanks for the demonstrations of this concept in action.

    Here is part of it:

    In terms of ideology, ingroup virtue is outgroup vice. People of my ideology are virtuous no matter what they do, and I am glad to hunt around for the reasons why and how, because the ideology itself is so virtuous that it has to be so. Policies of my ideology always work, or if they don’t work, it was because of uanavoidable unfortunate circumstances, like conditions previously brought about by someone of the other ideology.

    People of the opposite ideology to mine are evil, no matter what they do, and I will be glad to hunt around to find the reasons how and why this can be so, because their ideology is so evil, that this must be so. Policies of the opposite ideology never work, and if they seem to work it was because of other circumstances bringing about good results and making that ideology’s policies seem to work.

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    • go2mars

      I think you need a bigger box. True in general, but some people don’t really fit exactly in with either side. Like a fiscally slutty, anti-abortionist, pro-war, anti-feminist union leader who favours hard currencies, sin taxes, rampant deficits, medic-aid, but not social security? Or some other such kleptologue?

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  57. Colonel von Ryan
    Colonel von Ryan

    The Tea Party did not create this problem, Do some root cause analysis please and I refer you to Taguchi and Ishikawa if you don’t know how to…

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    • razorsedge

      shoot the messenger,,,and there ideas, and there dog!

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    • Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
      Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

      Who are you talking to and about what? I can’t imagine that anyone can understand who or what your comment refers to.

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    • Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies
      Frog throwing hot slices of pizza at people with different ideologies

      Anyone know what Colonel von Ryan’s Taguchi and Ishikawa refers to?

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  58. Yogi & Boo Boo

    LAST!

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  59. Johnny2time

    Wow this thread is just swimming with useful idiots.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk

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