Voter fraud is un American…left or right.
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LOL. The Old White Elephant Party taught the New Black Panther Party how it is done:
The sanctions have their roots in the 1981 New Jersey gubernatorial campaign, during which the RNC was accused of using a variety of tactics to reduce the number of minority voters. Most notably, they enlisted the aid of off-duty police officers and sheriffs to intimidate voters in minority neighborhoods by standing at polling places wearing armbands that said “National Ballot Security Task Force.” Some of the officers were armed.
To be accurate, what the Republican National Committee consented to stop doing (and failed to do so) was not voter fraud. RNC was conducting “ballot security” efforts that were aimed at suppressing voting by minorities.
In spite of all the alarmist talk by Republicans about the need for picture IDs and other measures to prevent fraudulent voting at the pools, the court noted that in-person voter fraud is rare and that the RNC hasn’t sought approval for a ballot security effort even once in the past 25 years.
Then I guess you’ll have no problem endorsing the push to make sure every voter can self-identify at the polls, so we won’t have that pesky Tammany Hall (Donks) problem of the Dead not only Walking, but voting, too?
Careful, the piece is from that hateful GOP site, NPR.
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As a wise man recently said, if you support the prevention of voter fraud, and states and localities are willing to pay for the alleged inability of “the poor” to receive proper identification, then you should have no problem with Voter I.D. laws.
But if you oppose said laws, given the above conditions, then it’s pretty darn hard to believe you don’t like your politics in the Tammany Hall modus.
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Voter ID helps only with in-person voting fraud, which is very rare.
I don’t favor creating barriers to voting rights when those barriers cause big problems to help solve nonexistent problems.
Nor does a “free” (not counting the time required) ID card do much to reduce the overall burden of getting a voter ID if you don’t already have one of the accepted ID photo IDs.
One typically require “official” copies of birth certificates, marriage certificates, etc. These not only cost money themselves, but require substantial lead time to acquire.
All to solve a nonexistent problem.
The above claims are as absurd as a big-city mayor claiming that last night, no cases of wife-beating occurred in his fair city because, well, no one reported any to the police.
Question: how is a poll worker manning a voting station supposed to know that a voter checking in to vote is about to commit voter fraud — if that voter is registered?
If the voter’s name is on the signature roster, the poll worker must assume that the registrar has thoroughly vetted him and that he is properly registered. What’s a poll worker supposed to do if a “suspicious-looking” voter shows his ID (if even required in the state) and is on the list? The poll worker hasn’t the means to challenge a voter’s registration, nor the time. Besides, that’s not his job. To perform his job, the poll worker must depend on the voter registration system.
One way in which voter fraud (illegal voting) is made possible is by the registration of people who aren’t eligible to vote. Such registrations are due to fraud (or to error) committed by registrants and even by registrars. But the most important factor contributing to corrupted voter registries is the voter registration system itself.
Voter registration in America is backward and not worthy of a great nation. And despite the fact that registration involves very little information, registrars do not verify the most important requirement for voting in America — citizenship. The Brennan Center reports:
At least 10 states … introduced legislation that would require proof of citizenship to register or vote. … Previously, the only state to attempt to require proof of citizenship was Arizona. That law has been enjoined by a panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which has recently heard that appeal en banc.
So the nation’s most progressive circuit court will decide whether Arizonans must share their birthright with foreigners. Immigration Reform Law Institute concludes:
IRLI believes the final outcome of this case will likely define the extent to which states are allowed to prevent non-citizens from being added to their voter rolls. A final decision could affect other states that have enacted laws which require proof of eligibility to vote at registration. Those states have determined that preventing unauthorized voting is in their respective state’s interest.
Question: if the final outcome of this case does go in Arizona’s favor, will the state’s method for verifying the citizenship of voter registrants be sufficient? That is, will Arizona voter registries contain citizens only?
Given the mechanisms of our election systems, voter fraud can be impossible to detect. And if it can’t be detected, it can’t be quantified. Hence: no voter fraud.
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/voter_fraud_for_the_complete_idiot.html#ixzz1pbNFJDgr
“Given the mechanisms of our election systems, voter fraud can be impossible to detect. And if it can’t be detected, it can’t be quantified. Hence: no voter fraud.”
When you cut and paste, Wood, you don’t take the time to think. Voter fraud of the sort that voter ID laws address can be easy to detect, especially if widespread.
Consider how the voter ID law works in the case of Dorothy Cooper, the 96-year old registered Tennessee voter who now has to go through a big hassle to continue voting at the polling place.
The law means that anyone who wants to show up and vote as Dorothy Cooper will have to show acceptable photo ID with the name Dorothy Cooper on it. In the absence of such a law, if someone voted in her place and the real Dorothy Cooper shows up, she would make a big stink about it. If there are a lot of Dorothy Coopers making a lot of big stinks, the fraud will be evident and will be investigated.
One of the reasons that voting fraud is rare is that the payoff is lousy and uncertain. It takes a lot of votes to affect most races, so it takes a lot of effort and the penalties can be very stiff. Most fraud cases are ones or twos of people voting for dead spouses and the like.
96-Year-Old Black Woman Denied Voter ID in Tennessee
http://gawker.com/5847225/96+year+old-black-woman-denied-voter-id-in-tennessee
The article discusses the difficulties a registered voter is going through to get a photo ID card that Tennessee now requires her to have to vote at the polls.
But, we want the state to put all the Dorothy Coopers through this new hassle so that nobody casts a ballot without proving their identity, right?
Cut to the last sentence of the article:
“Meantime, the local administrator of elections says Cooper can vote by absentee ballot, which won’t require a photo ID.”
And the “fraud prevention” justification goes swirling down the toilet.
The question Ottnot is what would you propose to reduce or eliminate electoral fraud?
“Alleging that voter fraud doesn’t exist is a straw man designed to divert attention away from other more pressing election problems. Alleging that an undetectable fraud doesn’t exist draws attention away from the frauds that can be detected, but aren’t. Alleging that voter fraud doesn’t exist whitewashes America’s voter registration mess.
Progressives allege that new voter ID requirements are meant to suppress turnout, especially of “the wrong kind of people,” as the Doonesbury cartoon puts it. But the progressives’ resistance to even the most basic safeguards is an attempt to keep elections open to theft. Progressives don’t care about the integrity of elections; they just want to win, by whatever means necessary.”
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/voter_fraud_for_the_complete_idiot.html#ixzz1pbQ7Us43
I propose to do as little as necessary.
Barring any evidence that voter fraud is a problem, I want to continue to make it more convenient for people to register and exercise their right to vote.
Behind-the-scenes improvement of the registration system makes sense, though that is a long-term project. Voting and registration are decentralized activities, so coordination is difficult.
Beyond that, I’d favor a review of the laws that define voter fraud and establish penalties, to make sure that they have kept up with the times.
One of the reasons that voting fraud is so rare is that the payoff is so low for the effort required. You need a lot of votes to be sure of affecting anything beyond a local race, so a handful of individuals acting independently really aren’t a concern to me – at least, not to the point that I’d want to inconvenience large numbers of legitimate voters.
I’d thought you favored limited and efficient laws/government. Why doesn’t that seem to come into play for you in this case?
I don’t know how you can say “barring any evidence that voter fraud is a problem” when the governership of Washington State and the junior senatorial seat in Minnesota were both obtained through extremely questionable “recounts.”
That’s not even including the famed exploits of Obama’s ACORN organization in the registration department.
Why is it that when there is a “recount demanded” the Dem almost invariably wins? And so much so that you rarely see a GOP candidate demanding a recount?
There’s always that “extra box o’ votes” that someone forgot to pull out of the trunk of their car.
Face it Otts, your party has a long established tradition of municipal corruption that has led to myriad stolen elections. You’ve not a toe to stand on.
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Limited government does come into place. But the only way government can work — even in a limited sphere — is when it’s free of corruption. You Dems are perfectly willing to have the largest most egregiously corrupt government in history (which we are getting this term), because the ENDS can always be justified!
Or at least, rationalized, right Great Society Otts?
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Y. There’s no question Dingy Harry (NV) bought off his Senatorial votes via WalMart gift cards in the 2010 cycle.
The GOP faced intense, panic police regulations as ID verification was intentionally thwarted via voter fraud.
Plenty of evidence there obviating any bar to patent fraud. Unless, of course, the umpire is looking at the hot babe outside the foul line. In which case, every pitch is a strike!
Basic rules on veracity to vote is threshold to any irrational, and malicious, plan contrariwise.
There’s no question Mitt is buying this election. Nor is there any question that Henry Cochran and David Koch have bought many others.
So when the supreme court rules that corporations are not persons, then we can demand ID from the little old black ladies.
Deal?
Campaign finance regulations are irrelevant and a non-issue; resulting in confusion.
You miss the issue.
So let me enlighten you.
“It” is whether America has the sovereign right to regulate, as a fundamental right, voting rules based on customary qualifications, according to neutral methods, to assure citizenry?
Back to school Spukey.
sometimes buying elections works and sometimes not. Corzine bot a couple but lost a couple. Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman threw away millions trying to buy their way in. You gotta have more than money to get elected.
Jake, voter ID laws have nothing to do with the procedures and personnel involved with recounts.
Dead people voting in Washington:
The article mentions 8 such votes. The county said that 1 was an administrative error. At least 2 more were by people voting for their deceased spouses (including one voting against the Democrat) and a 4th was a voter who mistakenly used her deceased husband’s absentee ballot instead of her own. No partisan conspiracy involved, and a miniscule number of votes involved.
Felons voting in Minnesota:
That is a problem with maintaining the voter registration system, not a problem that could be fixed by voter ID laws. No evidence of any partisan conspiracy or intent to defraud. When Florida tried to “fix” voter registration by purging felons who didn’t have the right to vote, they famously purged many eligible voters with similar names.
Acorn registration:
People who were paid to register voters created fake registrations to meet quotas. In most states, the law requires you to turn in all registration forms even if you know or suspect that the registrations are phony. At any rate, the fraudulent registrations don’t appear to have ended up on the voter rolls or to have resulted in any votes.
You’ve listed some of the most combed-over and litigated recounts of the past decade as evidence that voter fraud is tilting elections. The courts found the evidence unconvincing. Sorry.
Amazingly, all of those “combed over litigated recounts” provided fraudulent wins for Democrats… and that last bit about ACORN doing fraudulent RICO-level mass voter registrations for no reason… lofl!
Seriously Otts, how do you live with yourself making excuses for such blatent, long term corruption? It won’t end just because your ends are achieved, you know. Eventually, even you will puke from the overwhelming stench of it.
But by then, we’ll be Algeria. Where even a simple motor vehicle registration will require bakshish.
But you’ll probably have shitty universal health care and higher barriers to entry for those trying to improve themselves, so what me worry, right?
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We need a major reform candidate of the res publica. Julius Caesar was a reformer of corruption if you look past the survivor bias of the conspirators against Caesar in the Ides of March and others writing history.
He reformed the calendar because of election fraud previously it was based on a lunar colander that was wrong so the high priest would add days so that a lunar cycle matched with a month. Eventually entire months were added all for political and election purposes.
He also reformed welfare to make sure people weren’t taking advantage. Of the system.
“Caesar changed the old method of registering voters: he made the City landlords help him to complete the list, street by street, and reduced from 320,000 to 150,00 the number of householders who might draw free grain. To do away with the nuisance of having to summon everyone for enrolment periodically, he made the praetors keep their register up to date by replacing the names of the dead men with those of others not yet listed.”
(Suetonius, The Twelve Caesars, Julius Caesar 41,3) (Penguin Classics ed., translation by Robert Graves)
His economic reforms were ingenious, particularly considering it was 2000+ys ago and understanding how the value of money had change which deflated housing value and inflated the cost of the mortgage as one mortgage before the war would be enough to buy 2 houses, allowed him to escape without a Marxist approach of seizing property, nor an inhumane approach of putting everyone in debtors prison or having them owe more than their house was worth
History has many accounts.
To me. Caesar had his ass handed to him by the Germans and English before being murdered upon his returning “back home.
I guess anyone can write history, no?