I was just chitty-chatting on Twitter regarding the revered banks and how they should be handled. The dominating opinion is to kill any and all executives who made bad bets and replace “Wall Street talent” with unemployed welders. Sure, the French revolution made sense, until Napoleon seized power and went full retard on Europe, executing a “scorched earth” strategy for governing.
Many of you want to be rebellious because you loathe the people who fucked up this country. But I have news for you: this isn’t a new phenomenon. This country has been on the decline since the 1970’s and the bankers are not the only people responsible for our woes. How about the manufacturing plants in the rust belt? I can guarantee you the outsourcing of American jobs has hurt us more than TARP, via closing factories down in order to reduce expenses, yet American industrials are booking RECORD profits thanks to cheap Chinese labor. Moreover, the idea that these mammoth banks are going to go away in exchange for smaller/community banks is pure phantasm. They were allowed to get big by your government. You want to exact change? Arm the protesters and put them on a fucking train heading for DC.
Like it or not, the banks are NOT owned by the government and can pay their CEO’s whatever they want. If Citibank wants to pay their CEO 1 trillion dollars per year, they are entitled to do so. Do you want to know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE A FUCKING PRIVATE BUSINESS. If shareholders want to rebel, so be it. That’s how this system of capitalism works. The government doesn’t get a fucking say in how monies are to be allocated. They (the govt) are the worst allocators of capital and should mind their own peas when it comes to budgeting.
Look at the balance sheets of corporate America (RECORD CASH) and compare them to the government (RECORD DEBT).
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preach on brotha.
But we are very emotional about this!
RIGHT ON FLY !!!
although it does piss me off when the banks make a bad bet and we socialize the losses and privatize profits.
I do not begrudge anyone banking as much coin as they can, especially in capital markets. You put your nuts on the line you reap, you lose well, hopefully you have enough to try again.
I wonder what big bets the old style partnerships would have made when it was their asses (read cash) on the line.
Beautiful piece, especially putting them on the train to exact change.
“although it does piss me off when the banks make a bad bet and we socialize the losses and privatize profits.”
Hit it on the head. You can’t have it both ways.
I can’t remember how many times I have heard my children say “but (insert name) did it why can’t I” Moral relativism is a BS argument (i.e. started in the 70s)
The banks were private, but now we all own them via Tarp, QE1 and QE2. People are pissed.
Wrong. We didn’t have to give TARP but we did. Since then the banks paid back TARP and are not owned by us. That’s like saying your credit card company still owns you after you paid back the debt you once owed.
Tell me that aftr qe1 and 2 are done. Banks are making a killing off those programs.
What does mrs. Fly think about moral relativism? Good for your kids? Good for their future?
Don’t bring my wife into this discussion or my family.
The banks are in the business of making money. They ARE NOT OWNED by the government and can do whatever they want. Now, if you are upset with them, withdraw your deposits.
My apologies. I was speaking in general terms. Is moral relativism acceptable? The best way to make decisions in the long run? Clearly not because here we are today.
It’s a corrupt system being leveraged by the banks. Shouldn’t I be angry? Clearly I am right because if I wasn’t then we wouldn’t be having this discussion today
Yes it is corrupt. But the banks are a symptom, not the root. The problem lies in DC.
Correctamundo!
The banks take what they are given, just like anyone else would.
The OWS people are asking for their fair share but there’s nothing fair about taking from people who earn and giving it to those who don’t.
Fly,
Who are you trying to fool? You were all for TARP when it was voted on. I can remember you arguing with me about how the DJIA would go to 1500 and tanks would be rolling down I-95.
pfff..
TARP was a tool to get the banks to taste the sweet taxpayer nectar. Ahh, but once Eve ate the apple, everything changed.
What is the moral relativism, exactly?
Do you even know what that term means?
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Did I say I was against tarp? Do you like making up stories? I support tarp 100% because I have a brain.
Jake,
No, I do not, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Fly,
I misunderstood your argument above.
Fly,
this has become quite reflexive. Washington is the root, but the bank lobby is VERY strong thus perpetuating the corruption in Washington.
until you stop giving power to those with the largest campaign war chest, the problem will not stop.
Correction — until you stop giving Congress the power to give away large sums of money, the problem will not stop.
____________
Stopping Congress from taking large sums of money will also help.
Excuse me Mr. Fly,
With all do respect, every single “large” bank is insolvent, that is a fact. The only reason they are in business is because of FASB 157 as you know. The fed is trying to reboot level 3 assets, aka ponzi, by debasing our currency which has finished off what is left of the middle class. What drove off our blue collar mid american worker was Washington induced monetary policy funded by the qaunts of wall street, aka JP Morgan, Sachs,etc. They needed to keep the ponzi going and make trillions, not billions. The introduction of CDS allowed the migration of jobs moving offshore at a hyper accelerated rate. OTC derivatives invented by Wall Street is what turned our country into a paper pushing society where one only needed to refi or pull from an equity line to prosper for a year. OTC derivatives created the re ponzi that brought in illegal immigrants to replace Joe the Plumber and all ancillary contruction jobs. The foundation off all the malinvestment over the last 30 years was brought by the financial “ingenuity” of wall street and their puppet congress. You don’t get a movement like this unless the the fraud is massive and has been exposed.
thats crap
no it’s not jimmy,cause thats exactly what went down,wtf!
I cant help but ask, where were such protest when times were good?,…oh yeah, obliviously going to Walmart buying plastic goods to put on top of their pre-fab granite counters. I can ask this cause I was one of them.
Apparently everyone was elated to get loans to buy 5k ft Mcmansions. Since then they defaulted due to THEIR OWN MISMANAGEMENT OF CAPITAL and want to blame the banks for LENDING THEM MONEY.
unfuckingreal
You are right but when you try to discuss this issue with liberal minded individuals, the facts don’t matter.
I have researched this and anyone is welcome to disagree. Banks provided these exotic loans to many minorities carte blanche because it was a way for them to claim a piece of the American Dream. When the financial crisis hit, minorities were hit the worst because their wealth was predominantly concentrated in their homes, which many lost.
Banks “provided” these loans to less than able borrowers because they were compelled by increasingly unrealistic bank legislation coming out of you know where.
I highly recommend NY Times Business Editor Gretchen Morgenson’s Reckless Endangerment for your further investigation.
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That’s a load of shit. Sub-prime mortages were pushed because the originators were not underwriting them and the investment banks that packaged them made the most money on sub-prime colaterlization.
Dumb shit. See what chicken laid what egg. The investment banks only got into the game after the gummint, through Fannie and Fred, said “We’re buying this bullshit.”
Do your research or simmer in your ignorance. Makes no difference to me.
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The guys that wrote the loans had no intention of taking on the risk. The took their commission and then passed on the loans to the investment banks, who then packaged them and sold them to investors.
And where did these investors get all that money? The Republicans borrowed billions and gave it to them in the hope they would use it to build factories and create jobs. Yeah right.
Dumb shit indeed. Don’t be so cocky when you spew this kind of nonsense.
Jake,
The loans were fraudulent from the start.. the income statements were all fabracated and the banks did not ask for proof of income because they were laying off all the risk via CDOs and to Fanny/Freddy.. and then AIG insured the whole mess with no cash… they took the risk and should take the hit.. not the taxpayer. thats the rub.. the made all the money and still got bailed out.. that is a fucked up system.
A crew of TSA agents well schooled in the fine art of body cavity searches and armed with portable Rapescanners will be knocking on ur door with this sort of incendiery anti gov’t attitude.
Isn’t that Kevin “Foot Loose” Bacon in your avatar as a prison guard? can’t palce the movie though.
Yes it is…Animal House! Soon to be a real scene from a city block near you!
LOL,except in my hood i wont be saying “Thank you Sir, may I have another”
There was another movie where he was a guard at a juvie (sic) hall where he did abuse young boys, and they got him in the end brutal movie, but good revenge flick.
The investment banks are the world’s biggest welfare queens. Do homeowners get bailed out when they’re about to be foreclosed on? Do students in debt get bailed out? A case could be made that the banks had to be bailed out for the sake of the global financial system, and should be bailed out again and again. But let’s not pretend that the banks are flourishing because of their acumen in a free market system. Actually, their performance is still shit. Look at GS and MS’s stock this year.
Joseph Stiglitz: “There’s a system where we socialize losses and privatize gains. That’s not capitalism, that’s not a market economy, that’s a distorted economy.”
Okay, let’s deal with reality and not fantasy.
Do homeowners get bailed out?
ALL THE TIME. People are squatting in their homes for 24 mos without paying mtg. I know people in the MTG business and they only cater to dead beats. Their loans get modified and everything is done for them to stay in their homes.
However, the guy who pays his mtg GETS NOTHING. His rates are high and his loan isn’t modified because he is responsible.
Now is that fair?
The banks got TARP. It was done to save western finance. If you believe this country would be better without bailing them out, you’re out of your fucking mind.
OK, maybe we had no plausible choice but to bail them out. Just like we won’t have a choice the next time.
But what if you were told “Fly, if you fail, don’t sweat it because we’ll recapitalize you. Time and again.”
You would assume a lot more risk in your trade decisions, wouldn’t you? Including a lot more leverage. I would. So would anyone.
The guarantee of future bailouts changes investment behavior. Which sets up the global financial system for future instability and crises.
See that whole mindset is wrong. Did Bear sterns get bailed out, really?
The banks lost 60%+ of their market caps, which is directly tied to their net worths since they own stock.
If you want to regulate the banks to take on less risk so be it. It makes no difference to me. However, the whole notion of bailout is flawed.
BTW: GM was “bailed out” yet Union hack jobs are still getting raises.
I don’t disagree with your point about GM.
“If you want to regulate the banks to take on less risk so be it.”
Well, that’s the conversation we should be having. Rather than kidding ourselves that we live in a meritocratic free market nirvana in which investment bankers are merely reaping the fruits of their intellectual labors. No, they’re enjoying a skewed cost-benefit landscape in which costs have been to a large degree ameliorated (yes, even taking in account Lehman and Bear Stearns – and as far as stock goes a 60% loss sure beats 100%) – for them, but not for small businesses and a lot of other entities and individuals.
The reason why they are able to make so much is due to size. If the govt did their job and imposed anti-monopoly laws on them, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
We live in a society that doesn’t acknowledge failure and therefore cannot embrace reality.
Look at 10 year old tee ball for example. Little kids cannot win first place trophies anymore. Look at the public school systems.
It’s all based on the same premise as the “TBTF” banks or the union stronghold at GM.
LIBERALS are the problem with America.
AFTER WE GET THE GUILLOTINE ON DIAMOND, WERE COMING FOR YOU FLY! DOWN WITH THE SYSTEM!!!!!!!
I will gladly invite you to come. I have some hand crafted bullets of my own creation, ready for the occasion.
Yes and a new tire iron he would love to show you !!!
LOL
CEO’s should have NEVER allowed Undercover Boss to be on TV. That show woke up a lot of people about how lame and overpaid CEO’s are and fwiw, the Welder would probably do a better job if he worked in the biz for a long time period. (Plus, veiwing public really got pissed off when the CEO’s would pat the employees on the heads and give them a week vacation for giving their lives to the “company”)………….anyway, G20 fun and games, no more money to europe mess and banks, yeah your private, but the G20 is telling you what to do http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/15/g20-regulation-idUSL3E7LF0A420111015
So the welder would know how to operate a bank trading desk?
I’d call you an idiot but I am not sure you would understand what I meant by it.
http://lubbockonline.com/stories/052706/bus_052706006.shtml, it would be a great TV reality show to see if it can be done. Fly, you can call me whatever you want.. Idiot is just a subjective analysis of the person applying the term.
Is it still subjective if more than one person shares that opinion?
Just asking.
But that’s a news article because it defies expectations. Here is an interesting documentary that’s similar to the TV reality show you imagined:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68cciZYNqn0
The people who performed best were the best prepared, no more no less.
Prometheus, I love when a Pitch can be made ripping off a BBC series with proven success. The American Version should have a Unemployed Welder in it…and no Daytraders..just normal people and watch to see if they have the X factor in them.For the News article it was the first example I thought of after Fly’s post. It is a extreme example, but after playing with the market for these four years I realize that most analyst, professionals know very little about how it all works, and are WAY over paid, so Welder is a extreme, but there are a lot of hungry MBAers that will do the jobs for a lot less these days.
Metal Leg, I screw up a lot because I am on a mega learning curve. But, I keep pushing at it..normally, not a sign of a idiot. Maybe a fool, but not an idiot.
Funny you criticize the professionals that “don’t know how IT all works”… Yet you seem to understand Chinese copper bubbles etc etc and have yet to get a single trade right. You are supposedly still holding FAZ since ’09. You called apple a top at 278. Any more bold predictions for us?
Steel Prices fall fast and hard in China and this sell off continues for a prediction. AAPL article had a crazy top of 404 for resistance if 278 broke thru in May 2010, which I still think is all QE2 induced and will go back down. Faz 2010, not 2009. I haven’t been trading in and out of stocks since April 2009..I decided to hold a short position in SMN and watch how this commodity bubble would work while I record and learn from it in a diary blog. Later I added FXP, FAZ, VXX, DRR..which I hedged with Gold.I love to stockpick in a long position but I won’t do that until my Bubble 101 lesson is done.
LOL, just admit you were wrong. All the “excuses” for why your trade was actually right even though it looks wrong, don’t make any sense. You were wrong. And you’re still wrong.
And you keep going on and on about an all-time high in apple at 404, yet it’s been in the 420’s multiple times in the past few weeks, so you are obviously not paying attention.
Also, I wonder even if you do get your bubble burst 3 years late, will you even be made whole on the past 3 years of losses, let alone capture any sort of minimal gains?
Mad, I have learned a lot, At the start of it I didn’t even know what a swissie was or a OZ. Bunds, Gilts. All the economic reports..I had no idea what a ZEW was at all. What happens is this is just a dead cat bounce as we continue to head down? AAPL, will talk after earnings this week.
fly ….after reading the responses…
you are spot on…she doesnt understand…
Fair points fly. But what of those banks that socialized their losses? Only a few were allowed to fail. Of those that survived because of the taxpayer bailout, how many paid it back in full? Seems that those that took tarp are beholdent to the public until they do. Curious as to your perspective on this.
TARP was willfully given to the banks, in some cases FORCED. Consider it a loan; because that’s exactly what it was. Banks got money and had to pay it back with interest.
The govt made money on the deal. Did the govt MAKE money bailing out GM? Where is the fucking outrage?
The losses weren’t really socialized. Banks took tremendous losses.
Fly, What about the accounting rule changes for banks, Mark To Market. What would you say to change this back. I don’t get to hide loses is my business or hide dead inventory.
Mr. Fly. We have taken your neighbor Steve as a hostage.
We will release him once you fulfill our demands:
1. Free Rick Ross drug app. enabled iPhones for all.
2. Earth Day replaces the 4th of July as a National Holiday and the Rainbow flag replaces the Stars and Stripes.
3. Free Blue Radios for all.
4. Nationalize Fox News and Scott Bleir gets his own business show.
5. Jake Gint becomes keeper of the gold at Ft. Knox.
6. No more making fun of Homosexual Operas.
7. Turn the JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs HQs into a medical facility for injured wildlife.
8. No more Cock and Balls Formations allowed on Wall Street.
9. Fly’s illegal gardners get to move out of their shed and into the Fly mansion.
10. Mrs. Fly is made CEO of Whole Foods and customers pay what they can afford.
FREE ANGELO NOW!!!
VIVA EL TITO!
VIVA EL TITO!
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I appreciate the Fly anger here. It is a rare case of true anger, and it is 100% justified.
Where does the Wallstreet Protestor Movement lie on the scale of absurdity? Maybe most ever? Or maybe as much as the 86 mets-sox riots at Umass?
I was trackside for that one!
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So I have to ask, since banks are such good businesses and clearly well run, why do they need such low interest rates, to be saved from collapse and also to receive 25bps on short term deposits while paying only 1bps? I believe that is called a subsidy.
But sure, call it capitalism to prop up institutions that would have failed without intervention a long time ago.
Banks are terrible investments. What is your point?
1.)viva private coporations over public ones.
2.)viva public corporations over government.
I believe the above, but I also believe that neither premise will fix our finances or industrial problems. No form of corporation or government will make whiny, selfish freeloaders (which is not all americans, I know) into hard working innovative service oriented people.
Classic post. Fuck those protesters. They are just mad because they are not willing to take the amount of risk and/or sacrifice it takes to be a “have” vs a “have not”.
Occupy GE, no?
Of course the banks are not owned by the government. The government is owned by the big banks. And therein lies the problem.
Actually, the problem is not the banks, but the govt. See the govt has the power to govern, but chooses to act on the behalf of banks.
I’d like to see this govt dismantled.
Not dismantled, but rather DEFUNDED.
Speaking of defunded, wtf happened to the html bolding function on this site?
Italics still work, btw.
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Jake
Email Jeremy. He doesn’t respond to me any longer.
The reason the government is in big debt is mostly because of all the corporate welfare the government is paying out, using our tax dollars– for the military industrial complex, the banks, the medical insuarance industry etc.
Don’t even try to say “the banks.” The debt is a result of 30 years of asinine liberal spending.
You’re joking. Bush and Reagan sent the debt through the roof, and they aren’t liberal.
The debt actually went down under the Democrats.
The right wing has run the US for the benefit of the rich and the people are finally seeing through it. First it was “trickle-down” economics, then “supply side economics” and now they are the “job creators”, but it was always just a bullshit smokescreen designed to hide the pigs at the trough.
Wrong, as usual. The debt went down under the Gingrich Republican Congress. It was going UP in Clinton’s first two years, when it was just him and the Commies in charge of the gov’t.
Clinton was dragged, kicking and screaming, to cut gummint spending, reform welfare, and yes, cut the capital gains tax — that last thing being the real reason the budget was balanced in 1999.
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I guess you forgot about Reagan and Bush. Don’t blame you because if you include them your argument falls on its face.
When I said liberal, I meant it as non political.
Reagan was a spend thrift too.
Haha, was watching a live stream of the Rome riot:
http://tv.repubblica.it/dossier/indignados-italiani-indignati/indignati-in-piazza-la-diretta-video/78306?video=&ref=HREA-1
Three guys sitting on the sidelines drinking beers, watching the whole fiasco. Got to admit, it looks pretty nasty at times though.
Come on now, I am as right wing as you can get but Citibank was bailed out by the government and is totally dependent on the government – that’s why their CEO is kissing politician’s ass all day and all night. I agree that it’s the government who let them become too big
The government is simply the tool of big banks and other big corporations and their lobbyists. How can the government prohibit their owners from doing what they please? Can your dog tell you what to do? We have the best government mega-corporations can buy.
The only way to stop this is by taking down the govt.
Good luck trying. I will be in the parlour reading a book.
If the gov’t chooses to sanction the Federal Reserve system, it’s stuck in propping it up until it no longer can. That’s the deal you struck in 1913 when you created the Beast.
97 cents on the dollar later, here we are.
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Citi paid back TARP, no?
Fly, killer post. The lack of education on what is really driving the fucked-up-ness of our global economy makes me insane. Bad policy (fiscal and monetary) for years and the skull-fucking grind of globalization (part X of world meets part Y and discovers what is cheaper or not around the world and causes rebalancing) is what’s to be blame. NOT, CEO pay, TARP, Wall St. Tools, raging fucking tools and now it is catching on around the world. GGrrreat
What the whole Occupy Wall Sreet movement, needs to do is scare some of those in Washington into changing their overspending, can kicking ways for fear of losing their situation.
So it is not the fault of Wall Street’s tools? The government is Wall Street’s (and the other mega-corporations’) biggest tool. So then you do not think this tool, the government, is at fault? Whose bad fiscal and monetary policy are you talking about then?
People who act like the government is separate from mega-corporations make ME insane. The government is completely controlled by the big corporations. No bad fiscal or monetary policies– or anything else– ever gets done by government that is not first approved by the corporations that own the government.
So glad to finally find out what makes YOU insane.
Here and I thought it was too many years absorbing a bunch of drivel in public school.
Guess what? The gov’t is too big. It’s too big for even the biggest corporations?
Want a test? Figure out when Microsoft and Google started sending lobbyists to buy their piece of the gov’t.
It wasn’t until the Great Maw came knocking at their door for “their taste.”
Corporations play the game because THAT’S THE WAY THE GUMMINT WANTS IT.
You shring Congress’s influence, you devolve power, you get rid of a lot of the shit you are complaining about.
But you know what I’m betting? You’ll be the first whiner to bitch about how the Feds aren’t PROTECTING you (or whatever grievance party you can assemble) enough from the big bad corporations.
YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
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I disagree. Gubmint plays the game because that’s the way corporations want it. Look at who is paying who. The purchaser of government owns it, just like any other commodity– or slave– that one buys.
GOOG and MSFT were newer kids on the block. If they had failed to participate, they would have ended up being owned by the current owners of government– the other huge corporate contributors to political campaigns.
I know you would love to do without laws regarding food safety, to do without interstate highways, fire departments etc. But I think there is a rightful place for some of the things that government can provide to a society.
Good to see your insults about my being a whiner and about how I absorbed drivel in public schools. I’d have to think someone else was using your handle, instead of you, if you suddenly became capable of arguing a point without insulting a person at least twice per post.
LOL!
Read your own post, Frog! You just said the government does what it’s corporate masters say and THEN go on to defend it’s alleged “protections” in the form of food safety, etc!
LOFL! You think maybe there’s a LINE DRAWN somewhere that keeps “The Corporate Masters” out of that part of the deal.
I only insult foolishness when it’s on broad display and masquerading as “the wise solon” like all of your smarmy bullshit posts which make no logical sense.
So Sorry.
PS — FIRE DEPARTMENTS ARE NOT FEDERAL AGENCIES. That fact that you continue to spool out this common liberal trope in defending a giant bloated government structure means that you are either dishonest or dimwitted.
Care to cop?
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LOL, indeed. Well done, sir.
Maybe it’s the wine, but I’m loving Jakegint right now.
Thanks, mine’s Knob Creek this evening.
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The site is called iBankCoin for a reason. I am only interested in making money in the market. If you want to read shit from ideologues, go elsewhere.
The Occupy Wall St movement is insidious because it is funded by and supported by liberal ideologues. They are Obama’s brown shirts, pardon the reference.
The Tea Party is just as bad, if not worse.
I don’t care about changing anything because it is out of my control. I may desire change. However, I have no interest in wasting time to accomplish it.
Copout. You can’t have it both ways.
Squishing around in the middle and washing your hands of conflict is as much of a stance as aligning with the farthest fringes of either side.
You have to assess the situation logically, take a decision, and be able to argue it with persuasion.
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This would be a good break for me to mention that I met the ultimate politician: Ralph Nador (2001-2002) before Bush v. Gore (the vote, that is).
Now there’s an “politician” who knows how to milk them “independents.” I mean, Harvard grad, with corterie of diverse, handsome staff, all coifed with one message: “corporations are evil.”
Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VicwLWPho08
coterie (l-4) ouch. B-Game.
I will argue plenty. But I will not protest in person.
Protesting in Person is probably the least efficient method of contributing to the conversation.
And in the case of the OWS nuts, it’s probably the most destructive.
But the Tea Party folks are just common folks, so this is what they do because it’s what they CAN do.
I can back people like Rubio and Ryan, and leverage my opinion in multiple other ways.
That doesn’t mean peaceful protest is wrong. And when I say “peaceful” I mean protest that doesn’t disaccomodate others, like the protest of the OWS asshats.
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If the government offered each OWS protester $1,000,000 to leave and go home, I’d bet about 100% of them would take the loot. I’d also bet that none of them would care where the money came from.
Not much different than the bankers.
Unfortunately I have to disagree with you Master Fly. Banks are not just like any old private business. Any old private business doesn’t get bailed out by raping tax payers. Nor does any old business have the ear of the treasury secretary and the President. There is justified outrage against Wall Street because they were able to save themselves with the loot of the American taxpayer. TARP was the greatest heist in the history of the world. Can you image an actual bank robbery where the robbers got away with 1 trillion dollars? Well the Banks managed just that. And they did it when taxpayers are suffering the worst recession of their lives.
Now if the banks had been left to fail just like any other business would, no one would be complaining about their pay packages or their essentially worthless contribution to the economy. But there were NOT left to fail. They were saved while the rest of Rome burns.
So a little righteous indignation is well placed, indeud.
Why does everyone leave out the inconvenient truth that TARP was paid back at a profit to govt?
WHAT SORT OF FUCKING HEIST IS THAT, FUCKFACE?
Sounds like a partnership to me.
Had they not bailed the banks out, they would have failed. Had the government bailed out failing other businesses, then they would have not failed and probably would have been able to pay the government back with interest, just as the banks did. How fucking dense can you be?
The whole notion of having an endless backstop is the problem. Of course the gubbermint is going to make money if they keep them afloat, barring a fucking meteorite hitting NYC. Old man Buffet is doing the same thing.
The preferential treatment towards the banks is the problem. And yes, I blame the gubbermint.
The idea of banks still doesn’t resonate in your skull. In a modern society, banks are necessary.
I guess I am the only one here who understands this, as most of you are Texting from Zucotti park.
oh by the way, if the banks were allowed to fail in 08, all deposits would have been lost
And it’s completely retarded to characterize the banks as “worthless contributors to the economy.” They are essential to the modern economy and to say otherwise is the farthest from “Hugh Hendry” as you can be.
Hugh Hendry is not a fucking Luddite, for Christmas sakes.
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There are many Americans that are happy as a clam playing golf everyday collecting unemployment. If you want to motivate someone to work the threat of real poverty has to exist.
It’s very similar to kids sports these days. Nobody “wins” everyone gets a trophy for “participating”. It’s BS, we are creating a country filled with zombie kids that will expect to be paid 6 figs for shit unproductive jobs.
My town is filled with Mexicans doing yard maintenance because “Americans” refuse to be paid 15$/hr to mow grass.
The lazy Fuck Americans would rather collect a check and use their debit card (food stamps).
For all you Libs go do a little recon at your local grocery stores. I’ve seen on several occasions people paying with food stamps for their food and cash for bottles of wine.
What town do you live in that has Americans NOT wanting to work for 15hr mowing a lawn??
I understand a little hyperbole, but c’mon….
Darien?
lol.
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Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am
convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs
of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you
lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from
the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may
be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will
ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers
and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you
out.
Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes it’s laws
The federal reserve is a private bank. That is what the problem is. Not government. Not corporations. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the International bankers. Of course i’m home alone.
As long as you ain’t alone with Michael Jackson, bro !
http://youtu.be/wDBeuv8p5C8
Guess where the Fed’s profits go to? Treasury.
Well I guess the Fed ain’t doin to good a job then, huh?
China…..no s_it!
Apple’s Chinese factories had their workers jumping to their deaths, if they made a mistake that slowed down production on the iPhone (during their 16 hour standing shifts @0.10/hour).
And they tell me Steve Jobs was a bleeding heart liberal!
That outsourcing is not going to stop, the jobs are gone, the middle class is gone, make your money while you can.
No Hope, No Cash, No Jobs:
http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=7855
Blood on the highway, baby.
Big money controls the government so that it no longer does the will of the people, it gives these huge financial monopolies whatever they want. People sense it, they just can’t put their finger on where the center of the problem is.
Well – the government can give these rats
some cheese. Just pass my tax plan:
110% tax on ALL income above $250K. “All income” = cap gains, muni bonds, dividends,
lottery winnings, and inheritances or gifts.
Then let the bastards get paid a trillion.
Why do I get the feeling 250k is 5 times your current salary; leaving you something to aspire to ?
You sir are a complete ignoramus.
I think Rigged must be 150.
He says dumb things in that slightly amusing “Grampa Simpson” kind of way.
________
Oh Jake, you always set me up for a clip:
http://youtu.be/ARXfQzfl9EQ
Exactly the clip I was thinking of!
_______
Great Minds Drink Alike :
http://youtu.be/NeG2aSGDhao
Fuck you Rigged.
retarded. period.
I’ve posted my view before-
I think the government has to “kick the can down the road”, bail out, inflate, etc. to keep the game going. This is not the “right” thing to do, but it is absolutely better than not doing it. Most people have no idea just how bad things would become if the mode of operation is changed.
Most importantly, US Congress and the President are a reflection of the will of the voting public. They are doing what voters want them to do, otherwise they would be out, one way or another. Regrettably, I think the conduct of Congress is a reflection of most Americans’ own conduct and views.
As seen in their actions and the situations they end up in, many Americans are not very smart and make bad decisions, and government follows their lead.
I was in DC all day today on the National Mall. Unfortunately the actions of the government (as directed by the voters) casts a downcast mood on an amazing and inspiring city.
The elections are FIXED. The powers that be make a token effort to make it look close.
And they provide us with bread and circuses.
We are as much a representative republic / democracy as North Korea is.
That would explain your 110% tax idea, then, Hans Brix?
___________
HA!
If everything were fine, people would not be taking to the streets.
If everything were fine, the unemployment rate would not be in excess of 9 percent.
If everything were fine, U6 would not be in excess of 15 percent.
If everything were fine, men and women with advanced degrees who had worked all of their lives, would not be unemployed for over a year.
If everything were fine, the college students would be able to graduate debt free by working a part time job during the school year and full time during the summer.
If everything were fine our laws would not be written by lobbyists paid for by industry (fill in the blank).
If everything were fine, the wealthy would not need to send their children to private schools, because the public schools would be providing the necessary education required to live in a democracy.
If everything were fine, earnings derived from labor and from capital would be taxed at the same rates.
If everything were fine, our bridges would net fall down because of disrepair.
If everything were fine, our roads would not be filled with potholes.
If everything were fine, the Acela Express would not travel 35 miles per hour over rails.
If everything were fine, young men and women would not be signing up for the armed forces because they have no opportunities in their home towns.
If everything were fine, 21 people wouldn’t die from Listeria contaminated cantalope.
If everything were fine, kids wouldn’t die from eating food contaminated by e.coli, because food safety regulations and inspections have been gutted for the last 30 years.
If everything were fine, there would be no protesters in the streets.
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.
Private power has no way to centralize except through a strong federal state. You are correct that our current format — with it’s competition squashing lobbyist center — is beginning to resemble a fascist system.
But the answer is in decentralization, not in giving more power to the federal government.
__________
Being thrown off a building, into a pile of glass shards that are covered in burning tar, Painful…. The Fly is Priceless
Second Tanguray up!
FIP
http://youtu.be/tHxJIlRJzuw
People are pissed off because the cocksuckers that blew up the economy(both CEO’s and Government) didn’t suffer the same fate as those that they employed, pure and simple. How many of these assclowns lost their jobs? These guys literally brought the greatest nation on the planet to its knees, and forget about criminal charges, these fuckers didn’t even lose their jobs!
Meanwhile, millions of those who worked for them (again, both public and private sector) and didn’t really have a say in these decisions, lost their jobs, homes, dignity, and are still scraping to get by.
Can Citi pay Pandit a trillion a year if they want? Sure, fuck it, why not? Private business should stay that way. But when you have a fuckstick like Moynihan come out and say “We have a right to make a profit”, right after he announces laying off another 30,000 people (And also firing two top dogs, but they get an 11 million dollar payout), of course people are going to be pissed!
The US budget is a joke, just a really bad one, and we have the the left and right to thank for that shit.
I will close with two last points:
1. I am sick of hearing people compare the government to the private sector. Quit saying stupid shit like “If these guys worked in the private sector, they wouldn’t get those benefits”, and stupid shit like that. Apples and oranges, people. More importantly, if we ran government like the private sector, that douchebag Obama would be making like $40 million a year or some shit, try to imagine that for a second.
And lastly, how fucked up is it that with all the financial ruin that the crooked bastards bestowed upon us, nobody went to jail except Madoff, the guy that got busted for stealing from the rich, LMFAO!!!
Rant over, carry on. My apologies for any misspellings and shit, just wanted to bust this out real quick so I can get back to playing with my kids.
Monseiur Le Fly,
I apologize for the aggressive comments of Wall St. Protester, well meaning but young. Also I fear for the safety of your neighbor Steve who is presently in the custody of Tito Marx.
We wish to thank you for your efforts on our behalf and as you correctly point out, a march on Washington is called for. But first things, first, Mssr.
Washington, as you also point out, has ceded power to Wall Street, hence the financiers must be dealt with first.
I am sure we will see you soon rounding up our enemies. My wife, keeper of the list says that you shall have a key role.
Also, beware of Neokeynesian, who is a dangerous revisionist pig.
Keep the faith, and pray for brother Ricky.
Defarge
When did you have a sex change, Madame… er, Monsieur?
And did they use a guillotine?
😉
___________
Let me go on the record as being firmly in favor of a “system reset” via ungodly inflation created through expansion of the money supply. Let them rain dollars down on this motherfucker. Drown the debt, drive up the innarest rates, make my house go up in value…I want to see dollars flowin’!
In other words, the prudent savers want to earn interest on their bank accounts, not put them into the market.
“Look at the balance sheets of corporate America (RECORD CASH) and compare them to the government (RECORD DEBT).”
So, if I am reading between the lines correctly, you are saying that the gubmint (sic) needs to find a way to get its hands on all that cash sitting on corporate balance sheets? lol I kid, I kid.
Unlike the Romans, who know exactly where they stand, NYC protesters are trying to figure it out. LA as well.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/meeting_jews_is_easy/item/occupy_los_angeles_return_to_paradise_201110151/
Following Hurricane Katrina, Vegas mayor Oscar Goodman tried to BUY Mardi Gras from those in Louisiana. I think Vegas may have a shot at getting trading desks and international banking, if things get heated.
and kudos to Drummerboy for coining “gubmint” over 2 years ago.
You guys are spelling it wrong; three times tonight alone !
http://youtu.be/6x5wCxxUX7M
That bit was just an act, but from that same reference page… this was not.
It’s over nine minutes long, but if you just watch the first two minutes, you’ll get an idea about who was ushering in our current era of hope and change.
_____________
Good clip, but I admit I watched Gene Simmons on the sidebar regretting his vote, too ! Any opinion on him ? I have to say he’s a hell of of a businessman.
Don’t really know too much about him. I remember being a little kid in the 70’s and all the teenagers thinking KISS was the greatest thing in the world. It was a serious phenomenon there for a bit.
_______
The guy is a phenomenal businessman.
Anyone know his investments in the market ?
A political cartoon rendered one year prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve:
http://i.imgur.com/uyF5l.jpg
Fly said that without TARP, deposits would have been lost. Well, the FDIC would have been tapped (and limited to the max coverage), perhaps TARP funds given to the public would have been better. Let the banks die, refund the populace with the “created” money, and level the playing field for smaller banks to come in to competition.
So the govt would have backed all deposits? Really? Any idea how much that would be?
Hint: much, much more than TARP, idiot.
It’s not clear that the entire system would’ve gone tits up without TARP.
The least they should’ve done was zeroed the equity in those fuckers.
(Spoken like a burned Skiffles investor, of course… ;))
________
Agreed to flattening the losers…
Everyone gets a haircut, buy a shitty hat and move on:
http://www.hark.com/clips/kcdwqsrdfy-it-looks-good-on-you-though
That was the point…twit.
Back the FDIC to the point of it’s responsibilities, and let people who made HORRIBLE FUCKING DECISIONS collapse and die. That includes people with large deposits, past the FDIC limits.
Stick to greed and self-promotion, your long-view of the economic landscape is slanted.
So let anyone with money lose deposits? I am so fucking sick of you pansy ass pussies.
Banned
Let everyone take a lump…ban your mother, twat.
This seems to be your mantra in this ongoing debate:
http://images.piccsy.com/cache/images/picc-5i5g7st3w-152914-500-333.jpg
“So let anyone with money lose deposits?” ~ Le Homeowner
No, just those who were not wise enough to spread out their assets to take advantage of the implicit FUCKING POLICY!!!
http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/insured/basics.html
Not just anyone, twit.
See the problem with debating people like you lies in your ignorance to how the world works.
If everyone lost deposits that would mean hedge funds and large institutions with deposits would be wiped out. Some entities are too big to spread out assets. You’re thinking small, not surprised however.
If you read this article, then present day issues take focus:
http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/post-american-world/
Sure, a lot of the protesters – especially the ones featured on the news – are the usual self-parodying scruffy hippies and idiot Marxists. But a big swath of the American public, including a lot of Republicans and paleocons, hates the investment banks. And with good reason. (Let’s set aside other devil figures of various factions – the Fed, the White House, the GOP, labor unions, outsourcing corporations – for the moment). They might like their credit unions and local banks just fine. But they despise the big banks. That’s why, despite the doofuses in Guy Fawkes masks or holding cornball retro sixties signs, the Occupy Wall Street movement has tremendous sympathy (witness all the cars honking their horns in support of my city’s micro version) and is being replicated nationally and globally. Make whatever arguments in defense of the big banks or deflecting blame elsewhere, but the momentum and the sentiment of main street is on the other side.
I can’t support white guys with dredlocks and fugly girls with mullets.
The agreeable points don’t come from them.
They usually end up their list of demands with:
“….. and the legalization of marijuana.”
C’mon, white guys with dreds are not unemployed, they are “never employed”.
Jake gave a link several days ago showing that they are professional agitators employed at big bucks if anyone recalls …
Alas, big unions and celebrities will overshadow them, and they will remain in the backround as anarchists, ruining it for the people with brains in their head.
Miserable for da cops …
I agree with you all. Let’s hurry up and fix this housing bubble/bank crisis so we can move on to the next eventual bubble and crash. Let capitalism work. I do not think we have seen the best of greed yet.
There is no difference between “Business” and “Government” anymore, as former has essentially purchased the latter through campaign contributions.
BECAUSE THEY ARE A FUCKING PRIVATE BUSINESS from Fly’s previous post ^
I must say here that any and all private businesses SHOULD be allowed to profit, spend or invest said profits OR FAIL privately.
No one will bail out my sorry hide if I go under. I employ about 5% of the population in my town. Betcha GM doesn’t employ 5% of Detroit. Just sayin……..
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