iBankCoin
18 years in Wall Street, left after finding out it was all horseshit. Founder/ Master and Commander: iBankCoin, finance news and commentary from the future.
Joined Nov 10, 2007
21,398 Blog Posts

Coffee Is The New Gold

Some people scoff at anecdotal evidence; I embrace it. If you paid close attention to grocery store trends, you would have caught Hansen Natural Corporation [[HANS]] before the monster move up—pun intended. Over the years, there have been countless winners in the food/beverage category, most of which have been acquired by food/beverage giants, like PepsiCo, Inc. [[PEP]] , The Coca-Cola Company [[KO]] or Kraft Foods Inc. [[KFT]] already. I am kicking myself for not paying attention to the coffee isle at the grocery store. I blame my ignorance on Mrs. Fly’s insistence on shopping “organic” at Whole Foods Market, Inc. [[WFMI]] . In order to stay in tune with the proletariat, it’s essential to eat their food, even if it shaves years off your life expectancy and gives you cancer.

What do I speak of?
b60-kcupl-web2

The K-Cup.

Many of you are familiar with “The K-Cup,” made by Keurig, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Green Mountain Coffee Roasters Inc. [[GMCR]] . However, what you don’t realize is how popular this thing is becoming. They are selling the K-Cup everywhere, from [[LOW]] to Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. [[WMT]] to your local grocery store. And, many of the big coffee vendors are producing single cup servings, that can only be used in the Keurig. Do you follow me?

Green Mountain Coffee Roasters Inc. [[GMCR]] has created a monster brand, not only owning the hardware, but they also sell Tully’s coffee an their own brand Green Mountain Coffee too (both supply K-Cup lovers with great coffee).Mark my words, soon enough, Starbucks Corporation [[SBUX]] and Dunkin’ Donuts will produce single cup coffee (for the Keurig). Other publicly traded companies that make single cup coffee are [[DDRX]] and [[CBOU]] . Other non-K-Cup producers worth watching, in the event they get smart, are [[FARM]] , The J.M. Smucker Company [[SJM]] (Folgers) and of course [[SBUX]].

kcupcarousel-thumb

As you know, [[PEET]] just acquired [[DDRX]] (K-Cup producer) . As a result, it is likely that [[PEET]] will enter the single cup coffee market in a big way, being the biggest retailer of coffee on the west coast, with 32% market share.

For every K-Cup sold, Green Mountain Coffee Roasters Inc. [[GMCR]] makes .06. However, for every in-house  cup (Green Mountain and Tully brands) sold, they make .12. The company is enjoying upwards of 60% revenue and 120% in net earnings growth; and the stock is not expensive, based upon 2011 estimates of $2.30—which is a low estimate. In early 2010, the company will embark on a number of licensing initiatives, with Cuisinart and Jarden Corporation [[JAH]] (Mr. Coffee) to sell single cup coffee markers, using the patented Keurig technology. This market is going to explode.

k-cup_cross_section

As an aside, The Hain Celestial Group, Inc. [[HAIN]] is the only company producing single cup tea for the Keurig.

At the present, the company does not have strong west coast capacity. However, it is believed that the acquisition of [[DDRX]] by [[PEET]] will pave the way for K-Cups in most of the 8,500 grocery stores [[PEET]] sells coffee in.

GMCR’s coffee maker market share shot up to 17% from just 7% last year; and it will continue to rise, as other coffee makers surrender to the Keurig and enter the K-Cup market. Additionally, in 2010, a whole new wave of single cup coffee maker brands will emerge, all licensing the technology from Green Mountain Coffee Roasters Inc. [[GMCR]] .

If Starbucks Corporation [[SBUX]] was smart, they’d buy Green Mountain Coffee Roasters Inc. [[GMCR]] for $85 tomorrow; but, unfortunately for SBUX shareholders, they are not.

Clarification: Someone mentioned a competitor of the K-Cup, named Tassimo, in the comments section. [[KFT]] owns the “t-disc” and has been getting shellacked trying to compete with the K-Cup. They have lost 100’s of millions trying to sell the device, to no avail. [[KFT]] is the distributor of [[SBUX]] single cup coffee for the Tassimo and other SBUX related products (the crap you buy in the grocery stores). So, the likelihood of SBUX making a K-Cup, over the short term, is somewhat limited. However, it is my belief, the K-Cup will drive the “T-Disc” out of business, effectively allowing SBUX to make K-Cups. There I said it.

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111 comments

  1. BensonHurst

    Fly,

    You post a Savage clip that says multi-culturalism is the culprit at Fort Hood and then you try to take the high road and say you don\’t want racist comments on this blog?! You\’re an ignorant jerk-off and have lost all credibility.

    Fucking weak. Just really embarrassing for you and anyone who blogs here.

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    • The Fly

      Quit having a boring life. Go drink a K-Cup

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      • JakeGint

        Attacking the stupidity of multi-culturism — with it’s own Marxo-racist implication that every culture is inherently equal and valuable — is equivalent to “racism,” now?

        Frigging liberals. They get stupider with every k-cup. One wonders if they would sniff the irony of their dopy multi-culturism EVER EVEN EXISTING without the benificence of Western Civilization?

        Perhaps if we lived by the Sharia, instead?

        __________

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        • T MOE

          Here! Here!
          Liberalism is truly a mental disorder!!!!!!!

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        • Purdy

          Cool. But I’ll save most of my bile, not for multi-culturalism, but for the groupthink into which you and your ilk like to club people …are you even capable of making an argument without using emotive bullshit ….like your implying that the guy above advocates Sharia law?

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          • JakeGint

            Please explain how I “implied the guy above advocates Sharia Law” you extremley addled hippy?

            When will you be able prove to me that your largest problem (aside from a deep affection for socialist redistribution of earned wealth) is a learning disability rendering you reading incompetent?

            Given this latest gaffe, I’m going to estimate “not soon.”

            __________

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          • Purdy

            You said, “Perhaps if we lived by the Sharia, instead?” Are we to believe that you wrote that in order to prompt a thoughtful discussion about Savage or about multi-culturism? Do you even read your own spew before you hit ‘enter’?

            As for reading for comprehension, show me where I ever advocated the redistribution of earned wealth? I simply noted that concentration of wealth is a condition that breeds instability. Not being able to argue that fact, you create your own.

            Any thinking reader sees you for the blowhard that you are.

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        • just sayin

          Jake,
          You will never admit to this publicly or perhaps at all, but face the fact – you are an exact mirror image of the extreme friggin liberals you love to hate.

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          • JakeGint

            Again, Purdy, let me lead you by the hand since you are having much trouble with reading simple lines.

            My query about Sharia law was in CONTRAST to western liberal thought, which allows for dissident opinion, and through which many intellectual developments have flowered. It had NOTHING to do with accusing said writer of “preferring” the intellectual wreck of Sharia.

            Speaking of intellectual wrecks, I complely countered your baseless claim that it’s “concentration of wealth” which causes instability, explaining rather that it’s redistribution– eliding a system of proper incentive — of said wealth which causes societal corruption and downfall, a la every socialist system ever attempted.

            And forgive me for pointing out the OBVIOUS answer to unequal distribution of wealth, which you — like many socialists before you — proffer as a maguffin that needs addressing, but do recall — I gave you the opportuity to provide YOUR solution to such a “great problem” and you instead reverted to your more typical Rachel Madow one liners.

            I’m still waiting if you actually would like to proffer a solution, but I won’t hold my breath.

            ________

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          • Teahouse On The Tracks
            Teahouse On The Tracks

            “redistribution – eliding a system of proper incentive” …….. as we have just witnessed? The near depression/deflation and redistribution of savings from 401k’s, taxpayer $ and 30% credit rates from the middle class to the bankers, brokers and hedge funds (ahh the hedge funds, the very same that tried to short the financial institutions into bankruptcy in the name of capitalist incentives) is what we need more of to avoid corruption and civil unrest/revolt?

            You are one fucked up blinder-wearing conservative ….

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    • Purdy

      Fly Murdock is simply a controversialist out to generate traffic. Don’t assume that he advocates much of the crap that he links. My friend Jake Hannity though, is the real deal.

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      • JakeGint

        And you are a one-note canker who lacks the wit to assemble a one-paragraph argument.

        “Hannity” Woooo! How original! (eye roll)

        _________

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    • omfgitsjd

      Seems to me that the largest human death tolls and mass murders have been at the hands of governments worldwide. But you won’t be hearing about that on the news or talk radio.

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  2. The Fly

    Ummm, yes. I do not want racist comments on the blog. I am not responsible for what Savage says; so shut it.

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  3. Steve Place

    Tea is the new wine. It’s going to blow up in terms of sheer snobbery.

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    • JakeGint

      Tea, however, has this one problem, especially in relation to wine and coffee.

      It tastes like weak shit.

      ______

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    • Lydira

      Tea brewed in the USA using the standard teabag and Mr. Coffee Tea Pot makes iced tea and as such it’s nothing more than flavored water; however, if you steep loose Indian black tea in a teaball or the way the British steep their tea and you drink it hot, not iced, it has a full body and rich flavor similar to coffee. K-cups are great because you get the full flavor of the bean without the oxidation and without having to worry that the grind is incorrect. Those are the two biggest challenges to having the perfect cuppa joe.
      If you can get a great K-cup of hot tea as well, then you’ve got a world market not just the coffee lover’s market.

      I believe in the Turkey Gods, though I thought they were more akin to elves and flying reindeer than turkeys. It’s time to buy holiday gifts… why not K-cups samples in those rabbit multiplying coffee cups that overtake the kitchen cabinets during the holiday gift giving season.

      Anecdotal evidence – velcro, I have you know was invented because a man took the time to look at a cockleburr stuck in his dog’s fur. Agent M got all his alien information from “The Enquirer” on the Men in Black. Fly in his time machine can see the future for coffee and tea — after all these beverages are said to extend life with their healthful ingredients.

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      • StocksRider

        fyi – Keurig already has green tea k-cups called “serenity”.

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  4. robert

    true. the keurig thing has caught on. very odd to me: nestle had this delivery method say five years ago in europe with the same basic delivery system that was called ‘nespresso’; in france they had george cluney (sp?) on the tv saysing his drink was nespresso and it was a huge hit; i was amazed they – nestele – did not bring it to america. if nestle wants to, they can be the big kahuna in this catagory pretty quickly. i think. in the meantime, nice business for little fish.

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  5. javiergoldstein

    i gotta say….I love my Keurig. I can’t wait for the day that I can buy Kcups at the grocery store!!! it’s ridiculous.

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  6. The Fly

    They are in 3500 stores. You must live in the woods with the elk or something.

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    • Lydira

      I just shop in grocery stores because the specialty stores are too damned expensive, but I have seen the K-cups and think it’s a great idea.

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  7. javiergoldstein

    yeah….and?

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  8. The Fly

    Not a commercial success you moron. Go read a research report then get back to me.

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  9. The Fly

    A little background on the lame and loud “T-Disc”

    Kraft launched Tassimo in France in 2004 and later extended the business to the United States, Canada and other countries.

    But the business failed to live up to initial expectations and in January Kraft decided to take a $245 million asset-impairment charge related to the business, largely due to lower manufacturing capacity utilization.

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  10. The_Real_Hmmm

    I gotta say this is totally treu. We have a machine at our house and her and her friends swear by it. Although I think the coffee trend is commodity based and is better played by GMCR and others, Keurig would be a great play if it was public.

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  11. The Fly

    Real Hmmmm

    Read the damn post. Gmcr bought keurig in 2006.

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    • The_Real_Hmmm

      Sorry, I was drunk as fuck when I saw this last night and just let fast-boiled bullshit brew out of my mouth.

      Southwest is definitely a place they are trying to grow, as seen on the careers section on Keurig’s website. They need regional sales managers for that area.

      Keurig earns income from the K-Cups manufactured and sold under its trademark license arrangement with Caribou Coffee Company.

      “Our primary competitors in this marketplace are FLAVIA Beverage Systems (manufactured and marketed by Mars), the TASSIMO beverage system (manufactured and marketed by Bosch and Kraft), the Senseo brewing system (manufactured and marketed by Philips and Sara Lee) and a number of additional single-cup brewing systems and brands. If we do not succeed in effectively differentiating ourselves from our competitors in single-cup brewers, based on technology or otherwise, or our competitors adopt our strategies, then our competitive position may be weakened and our sales of Keurig single-cup brewing systems and K-Cups, and accordingly our profitability, may be materially adversely affected.”

      They don’t really talk about entering into the corporate segment of the sales (“away-from-home”) where I think they could really create some killer profits. Aside from retail growth at supermarkets for “at-home” brewers, if they targeted setting up shop at major corporations that would greatly boost profits. I wish the analysts/company would talk about this more.

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  12. Lydira

    Lesson learnt: Pay attention to consumer trends.
    It’s going to skyrocket if it becomes a common choice in the grocery store.

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  13. JakeGint

    Never mind this caffeine-feuled blah blah blah. Did you know the lazy bastards in Congress were in session this weekend?

    Does that make the hair on the back of your neck stand-up, given there’s no current national emergency (Ft. Hood aside, which is NOT why they’re there)?

    You need to start paying attention, brofises.

    __________

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    • No One

      Extended sessions should increase coffee consumption. Someone research the coffee supplier to the congress

      On a side note, Cao was the only Republican to vote for the Affordable Health Care for America Act. He will be well remembered:

      http://i.imgur.com/qTg7T.png

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      • JakeGint

        He’s already “well remembered” for winning as a Republican in a heavily pre-dominantly Democrat district, thanks to his predecessor’s ridiculous levels of corruption.

        “Ridiculous” meaning so incredibly corrupt that massive crook William “Cash inna Freezer” Jefferson even raised eye-brows in Dem circles, so the voters of his district had really no choice but to elect Cao.

        Cao knew his only defense against a Pelosi onslaught in his district was to defuse her attack by voting for Obamacare.

        Note, this does not excuse his throwing US healthcare under the bus, it only explains it.
        ______________

        ___________

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  14. BuffaloUdders

    So far no matter which brand is on the Kcup, they all suck. I brew my coffee at home and take it to go, but tried the company KCup in the afternoon when looking for an afternoon “take care of bidnesss” drink. No good. Not worth it. Nasty. Till they can make an acceptable product, they will only have first time buyers, no residual.

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  15. stries

    I have a Keurig since last December and love it. I think it was #1 gift last year for Christmas not toy related- or at least near the top of the list. I suspect it will be this year too. I personally am a fan of Caribou K-cups but lots of good stuff. Also a quick way to make a not to bad cup of hot chocolate. Lots of tea selections if that is your thing. Good place to get K-cups currently is Bed, Bath, and Beyond- they have decent selection – or just order online. The Keurig does come with a reusable cup you can put your own coffee in. I did the math once and I think K-cups are about 50c a cup. Also I will point out Fly that you can get Donut House coffee K-cups but not as good as Dunkin.

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  16. Ponch

    The K-Cup

    I guess you still use an 8 Track Player. The K-Cup is the stupidest idea in the world. Why would I buy something that is proprietary and I have to depend on a third party to use it. I’ll stick to using an old fashion coffee maker where I’m not held hostage by some bullshit gimmick. I guess this is great for the lazy yuppie types that can spend money at will and want to have the latest gadget to show off to friends.

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    • JakeGint

      Is this “Officer Ponch” from Marin County?

      😉

      _________

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    • stries

      The reason I like it is 2 fold. One, I can make a good cup of coffee in am in 15 seconds and not bother with a coffee maker hassle to do same. Two, I am a lazy yuppie that can spend money at will and show off to friends. If I had a 8 track player I would still be using coffee maker-no?

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      • mrkcbill

        They need to get Vince to Sham-Wow these things off the shelf!

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      • Ponch

        The 8 track comment is meant towards something that was short lived and proprietary

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  17. The Fly

    Did not know dunkin had k cups. At my local stop n shop, the k cup had enormous shelf space. it reminded me of the early red bull days.

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    • JakeGint

      Stop n’ Steal has made it down into the NY Metro? Man, I’ve been away a while… was a (northern) New England brand only when I was in school…. not even in CT in the nineties….

      ______

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    • stries

      I’m not sure Dunkin itself makes K-cups yet but you can get “donut shop coffee K-cups” at keurig.com

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  18. mrkcbill

    Good Post Fly! Do you own one?
    If yes how will your local Dunkin Donuts stay in business?

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  19. pablodpt

    It s been a while since my last post.
    This coffee systems are going global in a fast pace , one big global player Nestle is taking advantage of its big international operation. however, including for them there are big threats http://www.nexpod.ch/product/16/video

    Regards to the Fly from the very south part of the world.

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  20. MX2101

    Is the K-Cup experience much more expensive than what most people do now? With the inflation thesis in mind- horric decline in standard of living for most Americans, how would a more expensive coffee experience happen? Or is this something that once people decide they have to have it, it doesn’t matter.

    I say this as someone who has a good job, yet switched from Starbucks grocery store ground French Roast to Cafe Bustelo. That would be $3 for Cafe Bustelo vs typically $10 for Starbucks. That adds up at the end of the month.

    Morning coffee is the only thrill I have left, and it was no fun making the downgrade to Cafe Bustelo, but I did it to save money. I’m wondering how the average Joe ( who makes less than me) is going to spring for what probably is a huge increase in cost per cup.

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    • The Fly

      it’s .50 per cup. How is that expensive?

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      • MX2101

        Yes, I discovered that after posting.

        I wonder if:

        1. The K-Cup brewing process is more efficient

        2. Most people are wasteful and use more ground coffee than necessary.

        3. The K-Cup produces a weaker cup than most people make, and people are OK with it.

        4. People will consume more cups with K-Cup.

        I realize we really don’t care, as long as the stock moves.

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        • JakeGint

          On a price per cup basis, it’s way more expensive, even compare to Starbucks homeground.

          And what about the hippies and their bitching about packaging?

          _____________

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  21. Thunderpup

    K-cup reminds me of the K-car:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Plymouth_Reliant_Station_Wagon_late.jpg

    The K-car was popular with the teeming masses too.

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  22. stries

    Actually, anyone want to buy my Keurig? I’m going to start going here.

    VASSALBORO, Maine — The owner of a topless coffee shop that burned down in an arson fire wants to reopen his business in an office trailer.

    Donald Crabtree told the Kennebec Journal he will go before the Vassalboro Planning Board on Tuesday seeking a new business permit. He said he hopes to reopen in a trailer and save money so he can eventually get into a newer building.

    The opening of the Grand View Topless Coffee Shop last February angered many residents in Vassalboro, a small town outside of Augusta.

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  23. Jed

    mrkcbill simply chews a few coffe beans and then drinks a cup of boiling water. He says it is the only true natural flavor way.

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  24. T MOE

    Fuck the K cup — Who drinks just one cup of coffee?????

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  25. T MOE

    So the house passes a $1 Trillion health care bill that the President says won’t add to the defict.
    Yeah right!!!!
    Time to print more money!!!!

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  26. T MOE

    Now we realize the reall reason for the big gamble speculative bubble that is being created, by the “too Big to Fail” using cheap money supplied by the empty suits of the government, our money, to make big speculative bets to push stocks higher.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/business/08pay.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

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  27. Brushbuck

    6 months of the year (soon to be 12) I live in the woods with elk (and deer and moose and bear and cougars, and raccoons etc.) and I love it! Beats the heck out of living in the desert with snakes, which is what we’ve done the other 6 months of the year for the last 8 years. And both places beat the heck out of living in a big city . Definition: Big City; over 3,000 population. Does a tree still grow in Brooklyn? Just wonderin’.

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  28. ZenProfit

    The local Christmas Tree Shop ( http://www.christmastreeshops.com/newjersey.html ) had 100+ Keurig’s and 2,000+ K-cups on a display stacked 7 feet high, around Labor Day. It covered 350+ sq ft. in the front of the store.

    Every model and every flava.

    Should have picked up on this 8 weeks ago.

    Long Live The Fly.

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  29. Soup Kitchen

    Boy….Fly It looks to me like you’ve really hit “ROCK BOTTOM” Coffee the new gold…. OK Champ

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  30. Lydira

    I was in a mall coffee shop and they had the K cups but they didn’t sell the machine.
    A box of the cups was $15.00. Each cup about 75 cents a piece. The salesperson said she had one customer buy the cups without having a machine for the cups. I enjoy a good cuppa joe, but this is the first I’ve heard of K cups… It’s still a specialty store item where I live. It’s not a common item in demand, yet. I am going to check the department stores and even WalMart to see if the machines and cups are available now that Christmas is approaching.

    Must be a trendy item on the east coast where the stock gods live. 🙂

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  31. GETGroup

    Tim Hortons…the next coffee breakout

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  32. Scott Loyall

    One of the major features of the Keurig one cup maker is that you
    can put your favorite coffee in a reusable pod.
    This lowers the cost per cup considerably and avoids wasting
    a lot of coffee when making coffee by the full pot.

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  33. Highlander

    Good post, in the ‘buy what you know’ school of thought.

    Keurig machines have been big here (in Toronto) for a couple of years now. One can get them at Costco and Best Buy (!!) shops, amongst others. As noted earlier, they come with a “My Cup” so one can use one’s own coffee. Pretty inexpensive and dead convenient as it quickly makes good coffee.

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  34. The Fly

    Excellent feedback here.

    I will be buying GMCR

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  35. eisensteisn

    Gee fly, finally discovered GMCR. Brilliant. What’d you say your IQ was again?

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  36. Le Fly

    Who are you again? Some internet watchdog, fully knowing and God of all investments?

    Are you suggesting that the stock should go lower because it has already gone up?

    What analysis!!!

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    • eisensteisn

      Oooooh, struck a nerve. I didn’t realize you were that sensitive.

      My point is you just seem to have discovered a concept/investment that everybody else has known about for years. GMCR may continue on an upward slope but it’s been a momentum fave for a long time, as HANS was before it.

      As for being a fully knowing god of all investments, I thought that spot was already taken.

      As for being anonymous, sure I am. That’s how I prefer it. And you?

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      • The Fly

        your mother milks goats

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        • eisensteisn

          I’ll tell you what. I’ll short it here. 67 and change. You’re long and I’m short. We’ll see who’s right by the end of the year.

          And I’ll pair that short with a MO long.

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          • JakeGint

            Cigs or cawfee.

            Pick yer pisen (sic).

            ___

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          • JakeGint

            Also, you should know “your mother milks goats” is an extension of comraderie in these parts.

            __________

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          • Le Fly

            Ummm, no.

            First of all, I am not long gmcr. Second of all, I do not need to measure my anatomy through some lame internet stock contest. You need friends pal, go talk to a horse.

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          • The_Real_Hmmm

            That conversation would end in a bottle of Elmer’s.

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          • Teahouse On The Tracks
            Teahouse On The Tracks

            Way to add to the existing short position (28%) that will need to cover once Fly starts driving the price up …. that’s why he’s a buyer by the bye, no?

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  37. j

    Northrop sells advisory services unit for $1.65B…

    Further evidence of action on the M&A front.

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  38. 308

    slow weekend….some somewhat interesting things out tonight:

    Moody’s raises China and Hong Kong’s rating outlook to Positive from Stable

    BIDU
    Merrill resumes at BUY, $455 trgt

    VZ Report claims Apple iPhone for Verizon Wireless in 3Q10
    A report seen by AppleInsider cites to sources in the Taiwan handset supply chain saying that Apple has contracted for a hybrid UMTS/CDMA model that will allow for the sale of a single handset to practically all carriers and specifically to Verizon Wireless. The report says the phone will use a new hybrid chip from Qualcomm (QCOM) with Asustek’s (2357.TT) Pegatron building the phone rather than Hon Hai (2317.TT) in order to diversify suppliers.

    Citi Commodities:
    Sergio Garcia (Citi, Commodity Trading) — Sergio sees a change in the commodity landscape with the entrance of more financial investors. Speculators are increasingly willing to play in the physical markets. If oil breaks $80/bbl then he sees no resistance until producers begin to hedge at $100/bbl.

    and I guess those hurricanes are sometimes known to destroy coffee crops….

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  39. Sachmo

    couldn’t resist posting this classic Chris Farley sketch on Colombian Coffee Crystals

    http://www.hulu.com/watch/4154/saturday-night-live-schillervision-hidden-camera

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  40. Tea lover

    Speaking of Coffee,

    What happened to Coach Coffee?

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  41. the NOODLE space cowBOY
    the NOODLE space cowBOY

    How uncool of fly, he cut him off without saying anything.
    This site gets less cool by the minute these days.

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  42. Sachmo

    “Frigging liberals. They get stupider with every k-cup. One wonders if they would sniff the irony of their dopy multi-culturism EVER EVEN EXISTING without the benificence of Western Civilization?”

    Being overly PC and multicultural is something both parties are guilty of in order to win votes. Case in point: Michael Steele (they could have picked someone better).

    If Fort Hood is overly diverse, it is because the army desperately needs to meet their quotas. Has nothing to do liberal multi-culturalism…

    Finally, “Western Civilization” isn’t a culture. Supposedly Western civilization started with Greek democracy, slowly then became the Roman empire, and then had roots in the nation states of Europe. But if you seriously examine how different each of these cultures were and how tenuous the links are that join them, its all a myth.

    The Greeks were about as close to the phonecians, persians, and indians as they were to the romans in terms of culture. Their culture was clearly influenced by a mix of European, african, and east asian civilizations, and genetic studies have shown significant intermingling of peoples…

    During the dark ages, after the fall of Rome, mathematics, philosophy, science all flourished in Persia. Where would “western civilization” be without the Arabic number system (which actually originated in India)?

    Ok, I’m sure at this point you could list any number of technologies that originated only in the “western” countries, but any one of those things were developed on top of existing technology that at some time or another had roots in the East. And the continual migrations of people and DNA mixing that went on makes this all a moot point.

    Anyway, there are a number of psychopath extremists out there that need to be exterminated – (i.e. fundamentalist Islam), but comments like this make you seem equally stupid in the opposite direction.

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    • JakeGint

      Point taken on the Greeks and Phonecians. However, the Western Culture that has produced our current liberal (in the real sense of the word), rights-based Judeo-Christian democratic way of life today is an evolution of the best of the Greek and Roman cultures and the infrastructures of civilization developed therein.

      The “DNA” has got nothing to do with it. I’m not saying it has anything to do with genetic or racial makeup. We are talking about ideas only.

      __________

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  43. Raph

    Nestle has Nespresso and Georges Clooney in their ads.

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  44. mystery shopper

    There is definately a great deal to know about this issue. I love all of the points you’ve made.

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