Coincidentally, zero American politicians were found in the 11,000 page leak.
Putin dismissed the leak as ‘rubbish’, saying the Obama administration was “an attempt to shake the situation [in Russia] from within, make us more compliant, and tar us the way they want.””
He then went on to recall the propaganda days of World War 1, suggesting it was being employed now, by the U.S.
“And what’s the easiest way? It’s by infusing some mistrust in society toward government bodies and the government, and by setting people against each other,” said Putin, adding that this plan was “brilliantly employed during the tragic years of WWI.”
Finally…
“You journalists all know what an information product is,” Putin told the forum. “So they went through this offshore [material]. Your humble servant was not there, but they don’t talk about that. But there’s still a job to be done. So what did they do? They make an information product – they found acquaintances and friends.”
Ever get the feeling we were the bad guys, or is it just me?
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It’s crazy. The whole “PANAMA PAPERS!” thing was so transparent in its attempt to blackmail Those Not Yet Listed that it would have been funny had it not shown how incredibly dumb the public is.
It’s like a made for TV movie: The Panama Papers
Ridiculous
W “looked the man in the eye” and “found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy” and Mr. Trump says he’s “always felt fine about Putin” so it’s not just you.
Living in Russia worked for Snowden and Kim Philby loved it, so that’s always a back up plan.
Lesson: When you amass a large fortune, move it offshore and bury it. Got it.
We’re definitely on the wrong side in Syria.
Yeah, according to Right Wing “news sources”, we should be on the side of that guy Assad who slaughtered large numbers of his own people, sending millions of survivors fleeing– survivors who would then cause Europe’s refugee crisis. That’s the side to be on, just like Putin is– but only if you religiously believe in Right Wing ideology, and ignore real world facts.
Fly, you used to talk about people “cradling Putin’s balls.” What happened to you?
The U.S. is wrong a lot. The Panama papers may indeed be some form of blackmail. Although when a liberal admits that the U.S. is wrong a lot, Right Wingers call it the “America Last policy.”
But Putin is no improvement over the U.S. government. If liberals cuddled up to an enemy of the U.S., who is causing a major refugee crisis, Right Wingers would call that treason. But when Right Wingers themselves do it, they think it’s just wonderful.
Tribal stuff. If MY tribe does something, it’s great. If YOUR tribe does exactly the same thing, it’s terrible, criminal, treasonous.
@frog
Your talking point about Assad was the same one used with Gadafi. Killing “his own people”. Check your facts.
Not so transparent as that pal. Not to mention this phrase convinces the sheep rush in to defend and then realize it was a con game. We did this in Libya, it was us. Turns out it’s us in Syria as well. Iraq and yellow cake? Wake up my Friend.
Regards
Chuck Bennett
I thought the same thing regarding the convenient fact that no American politicians, business people, or affluent individuals/families were named. When I found that out, I stopped paying attention.
US govt funded #PanamaPapers attack story on Putin via USAID. Some good journalists but no model for integrity
Also, Libya had the highest Standard of leaving on that land mass called Africa. The liberals and neo-con men fixed them up real nice. Giving them freedom and stopped him from “killing his own people “. You have to be kidding me. Right?
How you think Syria will turn out when you murder Assad. You think it’s gonna be as nice as Libya and Iraq?
Stop doing the world favors.
@Frog, you need to clean up your act or I’m gonna start lossing respect for you home boy.
Regards
Chuck Bennett
I didn’t say we should murder Assad. Maybe we should stay out of Syria all together. But I don’t think Putin’s supporting Assad while he killed lots of Syrians and caused millions to flee, causing the current refugee crisis, is something to admire.
As for Libya, there is more than one way to look at that. These people at vox tend to be fairly data oriented rather than ideological. Here is an article from there.
Everyone says the Libya intervention was a failure. They’re wrong.
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/5/11363288/libya-intervention-success
In all of these situations, we are looking at countries where we end up having to take someone else’s word for what happened. We are not going to go there and see what is happening with our own eyes and ears. So it’s not as if it’s clear. But it’s a good reason for the U.S. to stay out of the Middle East. Because the U.S. intelligence services and the military end up taking someone else’s word for what happened too. And so they don’t know WTF is happening there either.
There are a lot of secrets hidden there. The main thing that is not secret is that the U.S. is the biggest arms dealer, often supplying both sides in a conflict. So we sure need to get our Military Industrial Complex companies out of government and stop them from being able to buy Congress and the president.
@ frog
We caused Iraq, Libya and Syria.
This shit about these leaders killing there own folks is a trick. People , perhaps people like you fall for it.
If a rebel, supported by the USA is trying to overthrow a government is that rebel ” his people”?
Why are the people leaving all men of fighting age? Why are there women left to take on ISIS ? I don’t see any women fighting Assad.
Our money, equipment and expertise was and is at work. You need to understand this.
Gaddafi killing rebels sponsored by USA had nothing to do with freedom. Most likely it had to do with Gaddafi wanted to be paid in gold for oil or talks of making an African currency.
You need to wake the fuck up and stop watching Teevee
@frog
Lastly, you keep talking sides. It’s a 3rd grader argument. There are no sides buddy. You need to understand this. Tit for dat is passé Time to be grown up and realize the reality. Left – right stop using it as an example. Its utter nonsense.
Regards
Chuck bennett
There is not as much difference between the Left and Right as I would like. But there are some differences. Do you actually have trouble telling Obama from GW Bush? In foreign policy the Deep State tells the president what to do, not vice versa, so there is no difference between parties in foreign policy.
The Deep State: The Fall of the Constitution and the Rise of a Shadow Government
http://www.amazon.com/Deep-State-Constitution-Shadow-Government/dp/0525428348/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1460055833&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Deep+State
There is some difference in foreign policy, not between parties, but between neocon and non-neocon candidates. The only candidates that claim not to be neocon are Bernie and Trump. But I have a hard time believing Trump about that, since he is rather cozy with Adelson, who is very much with the neocon agenda.
I have a relative in the military, so I would prefer a non-neocon president. But such people are hard to find.
Chuck, what news sources do you use? I like vox, although I don’t see things their way at all in certain areas. It is very very hard to have a clue of what is going on in foreign countries where I don’t know the language or culture. Many news sources have an agenda underneath their “reporting” that they try to hide. How do you decide what news sources to believe?
I’m with Putin, le Fly & Mr. Chuck Bennett
I’m not so sure that Chuck loves Putin. He wasn’t clear about that. I’d like to know though. I so agree that Putin may be correct about the Panama papers. In Syria though, Putin supported a murderous leader who cause millions to flee and a resulting refugee crisis.
Chuck doesn’t think the U.S. should murder Assad. Neither do I. But that’s a far cry from thinking that it is a good thing for Putin to prop Assad up, when he might otherwise be gone.
I guess few other people besides me struggle to find accurate news sources on things like this. Most people here just swallow the Right Wing talking points whole, including cradling Putin’s balls. I guess that must make one’s life feel easier and seem simpler.
It’s interesting that when I put forward an opinion I have never heard or read anywhere else, I am often accused here of spouting Left Wing talking points. It sure sounds like it’s the case that anything that is not the standard Right Wing view is considered to be a Liberal talking point and a lie by Right Wingers.
Of course, Fox News, the “most trusted news source” advises viewers not to trust anyone else but them. Works like a charm, apparently.
ISIS blew up a Russian airliner so Putin showed them who was boss, in Syria. How come Putin had so much success in Syria with ISIS but we couldn’t do shit there? Maybe we don’t want to do shit, afterall BA LMT NOC RTH, etcetc and all the politicians and businessmen they pay off make fortunes off war, not to mention all the tax dollars the US government gets from them off war.
We are not very militarily involved in Syria, although we have attacked ISIS ourselves there, so we are on the same side as Putin in that way. Putin is heavily militarily involved in Syria, in supporting Assad, who has been killing large numbers of people and creating the millions of refugees flooding Europe. Putin attacked ISIS because ISIS has been fighting Assad.
I guess we could go in there and fight on Putin’s side and Assad’s side. And then we could support Assad in slaughtering large numbers of people, and we could help him to create twice as many millions of refugees. But that doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.
Putin is no wonderful guy. He is helping Assad in order to get access to a port on the Mediterranean. He doesn’t care if he helps create millions of refugees.
I agree with you in general about the MIC creating wars so that they can make jillions of dollars off of them, and that the MIC donates to politicians who allow them to do that.
But it sounds like you are arguing that we should get more militarily involved in Syria than we are, so we can be like Russia. I think the Military Industrial Complex would love us to do that. And I don’t think it would be in the best interests of the U.S.
And since we also attack ISIS also in the Middle East, you could also say “ISIS did this _____ and the U.S. went in and showed them who was boss.” But you wouldn’t say that if you are a Right Winger– because Right Wingers are apparently obligated to hate Obama and have to find fault with every single thing he does or says.
Putin is heavily militarily involved and also has allied himself with the guy who runs the country of Syria, who knows the territory, language, culture etc. Of course he’s more effective than the U.S.– who is not very militarily involved and who has chosen not to ally ourselves with the mass murderer who runs Syria at present.
This worship of efficiency is interesting. Russia and Assad are indeed highly efficient– similar to the way the Third Reich was.
Chuck, I wish you’d appear more often here. Would like to know what news sources you use and consider valid and reliable. It’s hard– perhaps impossible– to get accurate news on foreign countries and U.S. activities in them.
Part of what I know about Assad comes from a friend who grew up in the Middle East. He became atheist since moving to the U.S.. So I don’t need to be concerned about getting just a Sunni view or a Shia view of things– which are often opposite and both extremely biased.
“Ever get the feeling we were the bad guys, or is it just me?”
It surely goes hand in glove with US initiatives to unveil shell companies and eliminate corporate off-shoring.
@frog,
What are you talking about? You didn’t answer my question. I specifically asked you about Gaddafi and how it relates to “killing his own people ” and such.
To say Adeslon and trump are friends is the same as saying the Clinton and Trump are friends.
More importantly you are still writing about left and right wing. It’s pretty boring and it makes me not interested. Kinda like making me feel I’m wasting my time on you buddy.
Regards
Chuck Bennett
Your friend not believing in a god anymore doesn’t add any value here. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
Regards
Chuck Bennett
@ frog,
Tell me what happen in Libya. From start to finish.
This is a history test. Let’s see what you know or don’t know.
And begin
Regards
Chuck Bennett
Chuck, neither you nor I know what happened in Libya or anywhere else in the Middle East. We’re both having to take some other source’s word for it. It makes sense to me that NATO intervened to protect civilians, not to set up a democracy in Libya.
I am aware that the U.S. has many decades of history in doing and/or supporting all kinds of violent things in the Middle East, so much so that we could easily be responsible for half or more of all the violence that happens there. Perhaps you are right that Gaddafi wanted to be paid in gold for oil, or that some other issue influenced the whole affair.
What news sources did you read to become aware of the the U.S. history of covert violence in the Middle East that is generally not reported in U.S. newspapers? Certainly not in the Right Wing news sources that most people here read, which tend to be neocon. I have become aware of that only by reading Left Wing news sources, but not establishment Democratic party Left Wing news sources. Perhaps you have read about these things in Libertarian news sources?
You ask “If a rebel, supported by the USA is trying to overthrow a government is that rebel ” his people”?
Of course not. Assad killed a ton more people than just Syrian rebels, according to what I read. If he had only killed Syrian rebels, it would be a different matter. We apparently read different news sources. I would be glad to read yours too. What are they?
It would be good by me if Fly gives you my email, if you want to communicate further. I am seriously interested in understanding U.S. foreign policy. But I find it almost impossible to find a news source that does not have a bias– an ax to grind. This doesn’t seem to bother most people on the board, but it really bothers me.
I don’t know how to answer your question about LIbya without typing all day. So I’ll start to quote a bit from an article and leave it at that.
“As stated in the UN Security Council resolution authorizing force in Libya, the goal of intervention was “to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack.” And this is what was achieved.
“In February 2011, anti-Qaddafi demonstrations spread across the country. The regime responded to the nascent protest movement with lethal force, killing more than 100 people in the first few days, effectively sparking an armed rebellion. The rebels quickly lost momentum, however.”
“…In a quite literal sense, every moment mattered, and the longer we waited, the greater the cost.”
”
It was frightening to watch. I didn’t want to live in an America where we would stand by silently as a brutal dictator — using that distinct language of genocidaires — announced rather clearly his intentions to kill. In one speech, Qaddafi called protesters “cockroaches” and vowed to cleanse Libya “inch by inch, house by house, home by home, alleyway by alleyway.
“Already, on the eve of intervention, the death toll was estimated at somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000. (This was when the international community’s tolerance for Arab Spring–related mass killings was still fairly low.)”
@ frog,
If you where next to me I would kick you in the stomach and man up.
As I said before , stop watching the Teevee. It’s a trick and they got you feeling like you need to do something. It’s manipulation at its finest, and it works. Look at yourself in the mirror. You’re a victim son.
I give what happen in a few sentences ,
USA sparks these up risings. We fund and foster protests. The government knocks the shit out of them. People watching it feel bad. Next step we send in mercenaries , armed and ready to go. ISIS was one group. We send in forces to help. Libya falls, Libyans who had the best way of life in Africa just lost their free lunch. Game over for that shit hole. End of story.
IsIs then goes to Iraq and Syria. Same shit is playing out.
Did NATO or USA do it for the Gold? Well, it was for democracy, lol. What was it for? Did they really think something good would happen?
More over , Libya had the highest standard of living. Think about that Frog. Place was very well off. Not for a few, but for everyone. We knew exactly what we were doing.
Regards
Chuck Bennett
Chuck, you may be absolutely right. And if you have access to news sources that are objective, from which you have learned about these events, then please tell me what they are. Surely you realize that it would not make sense for me to simply take your word for all of this, without verifying evidence.
If people have no accurate news sources to learn from, then kicking them in the stomach will not change that.
I know that the U.S. government, controlled in part by the MIC, has done a lot of bad and violent things in many parts of the world. But I do not believe we are behind every single violent uprising in the world. I prefer to look at information on a case by case basis. But it is hard to find accurate information.
I recently read the Foreign Policy Association’s lectures on the Middle East and looked at their videos.
http://www.fpa.org/
I go to a lot of trouble trying to find objective sources. If you can help me find some, please do.
I would just as soon the U.S. military retired itself, except for those few cases in which U.S. security is definitely at stake.
Oh, now I think I see where you are coming from, Chuck. Since there has been a pattern in the past of the U.S. getting involved in uprisings and rebellions in various countries at times and even started them sometimes, you are assuming that Syria fits the pattern? I agree that there’s a pattern there. And I also have gotten information that indicates that Syria does not fit this pattern and is not an example of it.
The general pattern is certainly enough though, to make one realize that a sort of isolationist foreign policy– at least as involves military and other violent sorts of operations– might be quite a good thing.
My comment about my friend not believing in God was just to say that that is one bias (Sunni or Shia Muslim) that he does not have.
Do you have news sources– whether newspapers or people or Internet sources– that you consider to be fairly objective? These are almost impossible to find. Most in the U.S. are heavily neocon and Military Industrial Complex biased. Reports from interviewees interviewed by journalists attempting to be independent, often end up being Sunni biased or Shia biased.
Neocon news sources will tend to make Putin look like a nice guy, not the authoritarian leader he is, and to support others like him, such as Assad. But it’s just bias, not fact. Neocons love authoritarians. And propping up dictators who seem useful to them is the neocons’ thing– like with Saddam, until 9/11 caused Saddam to seem more useful dead than alive. Obama, by contrast, tends to want to support forces he sees, correctly or incorrectly, as more democratic
But Right Wing neocons tend to love any military intervention anywhere that will make the MIC richer, unless a Democratic president supports that intervention–as in Syria– and then they don’t want it. Neocon news sources are currently slanting their news stories in ways that reflect how much they are chomping at the bit to invade Iran right now– even if there is zero evidence in the real (non-neocon) world that Iran is developing nuclear weapons.
Frog – neo-con news sources make Putin out to be a danger to the free world and our number one threat.
You must not watch Fox news. Fox News folks– except for Bill O’Reilly appparently– worship Putin, and I consider Fox to be pretty neocon. They loved the Iraq War the whole time it was going on– had the flag waving in the corner of their screen all during it.
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/01/06/oreilly-breaks-against-fox-news-love-affair-wit/207815
It’s possible that different neocon or Right Wing news sources may vary a bit, from one to another. Some Right Wing news sources, like most folks at Fox, are over the top in praising Putin, in ways where they would scream about treason if the Left Wing did that.
The Right Wing also considered it treasonous when anyone disagreed with Bush’s invasion of Iraq. In group virtue is out group vice though. Whether something is wonderful or treasonous depends on which group of people did it– at least in the view of tribal political people.
Personally, I do not think Putin is our number one threat, nor do I think he is our best friend or a good influence on the situation in Syria– as he props up Assad, who slaughters large numbers of people, thus creating millions of refugees fleeing for their lives.
I don’t think we should go in and kill Assad. Neither do I think either we or Putin should prop him up.
Frog, how old are you?
No offense, your opinion doesn’t matter. You need to listen more and speak less. I’m not being a di k
Syria , Assad is gone, history repeats. It’s all the same beginning and ending. You have to stop watching and listening to the con jobs . Learn to think on your own and read between the lines. You are not old enough yet. So be more quite and make use of the education you get from here.
Regards
Chuck Bennett
I like you a lot, Chuck and you seem quite knowledgeable about finance.
We are caught up in interesting times. News sources are polarized, and people who watch them are polarized. Many people are sure that people who disagree with them or with their preferred “news sources”, must be young, inexperienced, stupid, or evil. Or they think that others with different opinions “need to learn to think on their own” which means “they need to believe my “news sources” which are telling the truth, and not believe their own preferred news sources. Things the other person believes are con jobs they have naively fallen for. What I believe is the truth. Other person, your opinion doesn’t matter. No offense.”
You are one of the brightest people on this board. Yet you do this, just like others here do. It’s an ingrained part of American culture by now, which even the brightest are unlikely to escape.
On another thread here, someone called me the worst insult of all, that worst of the four letter words “poor.” He even described the job he thought I must have, as this poor person he imagined me to be.
I know more about Syria than 99% of the people on this site. I know that Assad had to have attacked far more people than just the Syrian rebels. He’s got millions of people fleeing for their lives as refugees to Europe and elsewhere– one fifth of the Syrian population. All those people can’t be Syrian rebels. If they are, they would be staying and fighting Assad, like the real Syrian rebels are doing, trying to take back their country. The refugees are fleeing because Assad is a mass murderer.
History is not all the same. There are patterns that repeat themselves a lot, but every single part of it isn’t the same. E.g. there was not 1/5 of the country of Iraq leaving as refugees when Saddam was in power.
Life is stressful. Perhaps people need to believe whatever they believe, to get some kind of feeling of stability and inclusion in a trusted tribe. Maybe people need to believe in religions and/or political or economic religions Far be it from me to interfere with that.