Outlook negative
Treasury call to be held at 9pm. Immediate response.
S&P release is scathing: The effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened
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How is Fox News the only one reporting on this? MSNBC and CNN can fuck off.
The other news picked up on it now.
Your Obama will leave his mark as a failure to lead. How can you see it anyway else ?
Vote to take out the rest of the trash…
Failure to lead? Which party? The communist/collectivist/communitarian party… he’s leading quite well.
In order to create the eco-govt phoenix that will rise from the ashes of capitalism, they have to destroy the free market.
Exactly how thick is a human skull these days?
He’s leading us into the abyss. If those are the qualities of a good leader, then I don’t want one.
correction… he’s a political puppet, he doesn’t lead anything.
A (deserved) kick to the pants. Also, CNN is reporting on it.
Ron Paul 2012.
well that should get us to dow 11k early next week, with a mega rally in the VIX to go along with it…
or was it priced in?
lehman was AAA days before bankruptcy and the US Government, which cannot go insolvent except by choice, is AA+
great job S&P
Checklist seems a bit perturbed by the whole credibility problem.
This was the flaw in his thesis — the dollar is only sovereign if there remains full faith and credit in the “Full Faith and Credit.”
We had the privilege of sovereignty and we abused it. Twas truly ever thus.
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it remains in sufficient demand for foreign companies to accept hundreds of billions of dollars of it each year for real goods and services…
“because we think we can become the next greece we are becoming the next japan” – Warren Mosler
and also… the bond market sure doesn’t seem too worried about it lately, does it?
where are those rising rates, long predicted in tales of hyperinflation? looks more like the bond market expects Fly’s vortex…
Gold is rising because central banks are diversifying away from the dollar, they are begging for a chance to have a different world reserve currency so there is a very large very liquid currency other than the dollar. Once the rest of the people figure out the US isn’t going to be able to play this game forever, dow and businesses will launch as 10s of trillions in treasuries move into the stock market.
The market doesn’t always get it right, plus where else are people going to go for safety? There is no other market large enough to accommodate the real players that determine the price due to their sheer size creating the demand at whatever price they will pay. Yes for now there certainly will be a move into treasuries and perhaps rightly so with “austerity” as the code word around the world.
Guess what is the next victim after subprime debt explosion? Soverign defaults. It is subprime 2.0 and bailout is the name of the game… ask G Edward Griffin. Not sure if there is a darker conspiracy and a few brilliant chessmasters behind things or the 3 stooges Larry (Summers), moe (Bernanke?? I want to say Michael Aquino just because of his strong resemblance to Moe) and Curly (Geithner) that only know how to get the risk free trade set up for their crew (such as the banks)
But 5 years from now, when something gets done and a global currency or talk of a new currency and nation defaults occur and the money transfers and the governments around the world ramps up spending (all which eventually flows into US stock market anyways) stocks are going to launch making James Altucher’s prediction of dow 20,000 look like a ballsless estimate (then again his time frame is a lot shorter). Dow 40k here we come!
the price of inept leadership. busy changing radio stations as the car flies off a cliff.
Oh no! Third tier analysts not good enough to be hired by big brokerage firms, banks or hedge/mutual funds so they took a job with S&P have downgraded the US in the most telegraphed move in recent financial history! Oh no!!!! ZzZzzzzzZzzZzZzz
gotta love the cum fest going on at ZeroHedge over this. proclamations of DOW 5000 are all over the place.
Kelkun:
don’t forget — Ohhh Nooooooeeezzzz!
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Did anyone really think this was going to happen? I say no way in hell this is priced in. At any rate, my opinion is meaningless but the potential for fireworks has me looking forward to Monday.
you don’t think a lot of the big selling we saw yesterday was because someone knew something???
Europe had been selling off to a much larger extent than us all week. I think that the Thursday selloff was more about playing catch up than it was about somebody knowing anything. But thats just my opinion.
AmericAA+. Fuck yeah!
Karl Denninger on market ticker had been calling it saying the downgrade would occur in maximum of 90 days after the debt ceiling past, probably sooner, but then again he’s like some kind of financial detective that’s always investigating
also, you have to love their downgrade of the Federal Reserve. do tell, how an entity with the ability to print money loses its creditworthiness?!?
and thats the point for the US gov’t as a whole. they literally, except by choice, can’t default. except by choice, there is a 0% chance they couldn’t pay off 15 quadrillion dollars in debt.
the solitary question is inflation. if they wish to discuss the US gov’t fiscal situation, what they should be discussing is the prospect of hyperinflation, and not actual default.
and right now with so much slack capacity and a private sector deleveraging… we aren’t likely to experience anything even close to significant infnlation even if we tack on a trillion of stimulus spending or tax cuts each year.
Fed Reserve works in coordination with 56 other central banks that all own the Bank of International Settlements (mega-corporation).
You really think this downgrade is about the quality of debt backing?
It’ about creating the perception that the US is so fucked that it needs something to save it.
How handy that UN Agenda 21 is in the wings, in detail, ready to “solve” such a problem. How very handy indeedy. All financially backed by the same central bankers who created the downgrade.
What a fucking coincidence. Holy shit. Not in the history books or on the TV. Imagine fucking that!
Checklist, you are confusing CAN NOT default with WILL NOT. Don’t just study text book theory, look at reality throughout history.
US defaults:
1790, 1841-1842,1873-1884,1919(multiple states defaulted) 1933 (denied people the ability to receive their payment in gold), and 1971 (owed around 40,000 tonnes of gold but only had 7200 and they defaulted on promises to pay in gold and silver). They also defaulted on some treasury bills in 1979.
In 1842 when Andrew Jackson formed a new party out of the democratic-republicans (now called “democrats”) that abolished the fed, and there’s a certain guy that coincidentally also has a last name that can also be a first name, that also is giving rise to a new party out of an old one (tea party republicans) running for president in 2012 as well that has talked about eventually having the fed removed for decades.
If it’s true that we “can’t default” name a single country in history other than Romania that made good on their promises of paying back their public debt?! Of course they can default and to label any nation as “unsinkable” is about as insane as calling the titanic unsinkable.
And yes hyperinflation is a form of default, or at a minimum a severe consequence of the alternative of avoiding it if you would rather phrase it that way, but to avoid hyperinflation risk, default is definitely a potential choice. If inflation gets bad not defaulting could become just as politically unacceptable as defaulting. Additionally, there’s plenty of people out there that want a new currency around the entire world as well as those that want to see a new world reserve currency and tremendous political pressures nationally and internationally that could result in a default some time.
The irony is that the more money that is printed the more bonds go up, and gold as a hedge goes with it as central banks buy gold. They have to park money somewhere, even though they hate getting such a low interest rate, it is the reserve currency and a large and liquid market. This will not continue forever.
“Did anyone really think this was going to happen?” Are you kidding me? Everyone knew it was happening. They said about 10 times today on CNBC that S&P was going to downgrade today (rumor…) yet the market refused to sell off. Now that it’s confirmed, why the hell would it sell off on Monday?
Did they? I never watch CNBC. That shit poisons the mind. But i have to think that “Joe Investor” might liquidate his 401k on this news – since it will come as a surprise to him. That might mean someting.
Fuck me. DrudgeReport posted three stories in the last six months about how some bullshit Chinese rating agency downgraded US debt.
Learn to read psyops and you can read the future.
Nothing like kicking a man while he’s down. We get another 200 drop at the open on Monday now.
I’ve been saying the same thing. Now that the damn shoe has dropped, we can drive on. No one trading stocks gives a shit was rating S&P gives, what they don’t like is waiting for the to do it. Stock markets hate uncertainty more than actual “bad news”.
Nah, I think we rally on this news. Seriously.
Eh…the reply above was supposed to be on your comment.
S&P 1140 early Monday AM. A 5% fear factor move…
you know… there are plenty of other sources of financial news other than CNBC, ones that even occasionally report what they are “saying” on CNBC vs their view on it too.
I listen to CNBC because if I don’t, then I’m unaware when things are happening, ie S&P downgrade rumor, and it makes me go “what’s going on??”. I went a period of time without having CNBC on and I got fucked up the ass too many times because the market was reacting to something said on CNBC, and me, not knowing about it just jumped right in like a jackass.
lol, I made the same mistake the above comment was to this one… unless the reply function is glitching out.
LOL! How about a 1000 point gapdown from which I can buy, a 5000 point rally, from which I can sell and then dow 5000 to close the day in what will be called the “Flash WTF”
LOL wtf, wrong spot again, I’m just going to stop talking for awhile
It’s a mystery.
Let’s hope for a 5,000 point sell off on Monday, just for laughs.
“The effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened”
They are absolutely correct!
Our politicians are utterly and wholly feckless and lack any kind of a sense of right and wrong to guide them in their decision making.
They must all go sooner rather than later.
Gullible sucker. Look up Hegelian Dialectic on the intertubes to see how much of a sucker you are.
I believe there are fringe conspiracy people that call this “problem-reaction-solution”
or as some call it “ordo ab chao”
Look, this is a fucking sucker punch in the face of our inept politicians. Other than the possible State and company downgrades that may come (FNM and Freddie), I say Wall Street loves a sucker punch to the nose of the politicians. Fly will correct me where I’m wrong.
No way … you must have posted this “down 200 pts” crap all over the internets. WTF? You sound like some degenerate gambler that drew down his HELOC and bet it all on black. Fly should ban your ass if you post that BS on his site one more time … you made your bed, now sleep in it and shut up!
“Did anyone really think this was going to happen? I say no way in hell this is priced in.”
Was this really a surprise to anyone? S&P has said already that they were looking for $4 trillion
Last time I checked A+ is better than just A, so…. we have been upgraded! seriously, who cares what S&P say, all I care about is the reaction which must be seen in real time.
Down 200 is like a morning bowl of cereal sans milk. It sucks, but still edible.
“can’t default”… and the Titanic “couldn’t sink”.
Yes they can default, and yes mostly by “choice” but if the question in the long run is going to be whether they choose hyperinflation or default is that really a place that you should have AAAA+++ and you should put your money in the long run?!