iBankCoin
Joined Jul 30, 2008
2,107 Blog Posts

Positioning and Sizing Trades Part 1: Swing Trader’s Perspective

Thoughts on Position Sizing

This entry is by Mac, from chartswingtrader.com.

“I never really put my strategy into words for this aspect of trading, and to be honest, I think a lot of times it is more of a “feel” thing for me, but then I thought more about it and realized it would probably be a good idea to do so. Here are some of the thoughts I came up with:

  • The potential loss I face when I start a position is probably the biggest factor for me in how big of a position to take. I chiefly use moving averages and support/resistance levels as my stop loss levels – not just flat percentage stop losses. If I get into a stock that has a clear stop loss level very close by(therefore making the potential percentage loss small), then I may take a larger position because my overall dollar loss will still not be that big (because the percentage loss is so small). However, if say I missed a breakout and was farther away from a logical stop loss level, I would not want to take as big of a position because now my potential percentage loss is bigger, and if I took a bigger position, I would be facing a bigger potential dollar loss as well. I like to cut my losses very quickly, probably quicker than most, so this may not work for everyone.
  • The overall market should play a big role in how big of a position you take as well. In a clear uptrend or downtrend, it is safer to take big positions in my opinion. In a choppy, whipsaw environment (like we have had recently) taking larger positions is a good recipe for disaster. Obviously, you need to have a system to determine what type of market you are trading in – there are various techniques for this. I use technical analysis of the indices for this and also a set of Telechart scans that I keep track of each day and use as an indicator of the market trend and to also show possible turning points in the market. For instance, right now my momentum indicator is at its highest numbers ever (or at least since I’ve been tracking it) and when this gets to extremes on the plus side, it usually signals a market that has run too far too fast and needs to cool down. Therefore, right now, based on that, I would not be taking large long positions right now because I feel it would be too risky.
  • Recent trading success also is a big factor in position sizing in my opinion. If you find yourself on a losing streak, or just kind of grinding your way sideways, that probably is a signal that the market is not setting up well for your particular trading style, and in that case, you should definitely reduce your position size. I know I have personally seen that this past month. Stocks that I thought looked like very good setups have not acted anything like I expected, and that action told me it is not a good time to make big bets. Things are too hard to do that right now. On the other hand, if you begin to put a string of very successful trades together, and setups that you see act well and do what you expect them to do, then perhaps start to take bigger positions. A lot of this is just psychology too – if you get some bad trades strung together, your instinct is to try and get the gains you lost back quickly. This is counterproductive however – unless you are trading a totally new strategy and not following your normal rules that you’ve had success with, most likely the losses that occurred were a result of difficult market conditions. And when you try to get those gains back quickly, all you are doing is forcing yourself to make more trades in a poor environment, which is certainly not a recipe for success. If you condition yourself to trade less and in smaller positions when you are having less success, you will do a better job of preserving capital during difficult times and slowly allow yourself to regain confidence without blowing out your account.
  • I would also add that fundamentals usually play a role for me in how big of a position to take. If I am looking at a nice chart of an IBD-quality stock, with great growth and sales growth, then I would be willing to take a larger position. The fundamentals doesn’t guarantee the trade will work, but it gives it a better chance of working, as earnings acceleration are the biggest factor in stock price appreciation. On the other hand, if I am looking at a biotech that has negative EPS, I won’t take a big chance in a stock like that. There are just too many question marks to take a large position. The chart setup is always the number one factor for me in trade selection, but fundamentals are important in my opinion as well.
  • Finally, I think it is important to remember to build positions slowly as a swing trader. Ideally, I rarely will take a full position in a stock during my first trade. Instead, I will start a position(usually around 50-75%) and automatically look for a point where I will want to add to it. If it doesn’t follow-through and hit the add point, then no big deal – I get out of a small position with a small loss. But if it does move higher, I am forcing myself to add to a winning position, which is always a good thing. It makes the positions that are working automatically bigger while keeping losing positions small.
  • UPDATE: Based on William O’Neil’s recommendations in his wonderful books, I don’t really believe in diversifying.   I really try to be focused in my positions, rarely having more than five or so positions total.    So I am willing to put up between 25-33% of my account into one stock.    I usually start my positions around 15-20% of my account each.    That may seem like a lot, but that is also why I cut my losses so quickly.   I can concentrate my positions without too much harm to my account (usually) because I try to keep all losses around 3% or less.  That equals out to about 0.5% of my account per loss, but I try to keep it lower than that actually.    Most traders I read about usually use the 1% of account value as how much they risk on a trade.    I prefer to risk or lose less than that.  If trades don’t work right away, I don’t see any reason to hold onto a stock.    Get rid of it and move onto a better one.    You can always get back into a stock if you need to.    I would rather be safe than sorry.    And if I follow my buy and sell rules (getting rid of ones that don’t work right away, adding to ones that do) it usually allows me to get bigger positions in stocks that are working well while not holding onto positions that stink.

    As I gain more and more experience as a trader, perhaps my strategies will change, but for now, I feel this is the best way for me to trade, and it goes along with the general CANSLIM philosophy that I try to follow in my swing trading.    This method isn’t perfect – no method is in trading – but it works for me and for my personality and temperment.

Hope this helps and is informative. Good luck next week.”

If you enjoy the content at iBankCoin, please follow us on Twitter

14 comments

  1. boca

    Great topic, I will be printing and saving each article in the series, thanks.

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  2. Woodshedder

    Good stuff Mac. I agree with you wholeheartedly, except that I’ve found lately that it is better for me to get a whole position right away, rather than to build one, as long as the trigger/signal is clear. If I have some doubt, I may scale in, but I’m getting to be where if I have any doubt, I wait it out.

    Mac, you’ve got to explore stops based on a multiple of the average true range. These stops take into account all the variables you mentioned above. If the equity has been volatile, ATR will be high, which means you will have a larger stop, and therefore, a smaller position. Conversely, a trending equity may have a smaller ATR, and will allow a bigger position size. It really takes the guesswork out of it, and even better, your stops are rarely placed anywhere near the rest of the herd.

    If you add an ATR stop loss with a percent-risk formula for position sizing, I believe it will be hard to go wrong, over time, assuming your strategy has an edge.

    One more thing. Traders who keep good records will know their longest string of losers. If you’ve had 10 in a row, then you know that you can’t risk 10% of equity on each trade, or you will eventually be ruined.

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  3. Mac

    Thanks Wood. I agree that building positions has been very hard, if not impossible in this market. I am talking ideally about a nice clear uptrend or downtrend to trade in, although I have found adding to longs is much easier than adding to shorts. I usually am not as successful adding to shorts, given the nature of them bouncing.

    I read your post about ATR and understood your argument – I thought it was very well written. I guess for me, based on what I look for in a trade, I just think it is better to cut my losses quickly if a stock doesn’t work regardless of its average true range and volatility. I always have a technical point that I use as a stop loss, and even if the stock is volatile, I figure that if it doesn’t hold that level, it is not the best stock and I want out of it. I know there is a chance it bounces back above where I sold out at, but I also figure I can always reenter a stock if I get stopped out too early.

    If I see a high-reward play sitting near support, I don’t want to take a smaller position just because it is volatile. If it is right near support but doesn’t hold, I want out right away instead of waiting for a pre-set percentage stop gets hit and gives me a bigger loss than needed. And if it does work, I have a bigger position to hopefully catch a nice move. An ATR stop would give me a smaller position if the stock goes higher, but probably an equal $-sized loss as to what I would have had with just a tight stop but a bigger position. At least that’s how I look at it. I hope that makes sense – it is difficult to explain. I do see the pluses of the ATR method however.

    Over the last 12 months since I have really improved my record keeping, I have seen my trading improve, so I agree with you there as well.

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  4. Woodshedder

    Mac, very good discussion of the benefits of using an ATR stop vs. alternatives.

    A lot of the reason why I’ve been switching over to ATR is that my time horizon has gotten longer and longer, at least for my breakout strategy. Sometimes it takes longer for them to work.

    I’m looking to capture several or more swings worth of gains on these trades, and to do that, it takes time, and you have to allow the trade some room to move.

    I do understand completely why you want to cut a loser quickly, if it is not working, and place larger trades. If I could still trade during work, I would probably not be using ATR as much.

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  5. Gio

    Hey wood… why haven’t I asked you to write a “Technical Trader’s Perspective on Positions and Sizing.” If you want, I can add part 4. If that’s what you’re into.

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  6. Gio

    Boca… I think its a good idea to also review and print the comments on these posts, because every strategy is debatable, and has +/- , so I guess what I’m saying is, find one that fits your risk/reward tolerance and trading style.

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  7. Woodshedder

    Sure Gio, I’ll give it some thought. I want to see parts 2 and 3 first though!

    If nothing else, I’ll pull up a bunch of research that has influenced my positions and sizing.

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  8. boca

    Agreed Gio, the comments are very important.

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  9. Mac

    Good point about “work” trading Shed. I will be going back to work here soon (teaching) and obviously you can’t keep an eye on positions and react at work the same way as if you are watching the market all day. I can check in once in a while but it is totally different than being at the computer whenever you want. I just set my stops and hope for the best, but that gets tricky too sometimes when you have tight stops.

    Perhaps that’s the next trading debate you can have Gio – types of stops to use. Hard stops, trailing stops, mental stops, no stops and making decisions solely at the end of the day. I have read about all of those techniques and they all have positives and negatives.

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  10. Michell Luna

    malcreated nonconformity planaea errantness heliand mothersome whaler stackhousiaceous
    hsepev ykjaw
    http://pjbhqp.com
    kvmseyc dkvmw
    http://xbggudtzmy.com
    qqvndt unwow
    http://luupma.com
    qcwuza qewh
    http://opllkd.com

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  11. Barry Rosales

    malcreated nonconformity planaea errantness heliand mothersome whaler stackhousiaceous
    cabsly jdtgb
    http://feqimp.com
    pfagpq kyxdsi
    http://rretev.com
    onhfm lkgntpl
    http://saxanyjwooug.com
    howdqi iscqw
    http://hdhyjyvg.com

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  12. Horace Blankenship

    malcreated nonconformity planaea errantness heliand mothersome whaler stackhousiaceous
    pcakomk ylwnaud
    http://qfhgpyvdwl.com
    dusbvj kxjjcafu
    http://nwnvyhf.com
    ouzezma ithtnmn
    http://kyhfbn.com
    mhvnm umgpie
    http://opwevtvwcams.com

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"
  13. Rachael Frost

    malcreated nonconformity planaea errantness heliand mothersome whaler stackhousiaceous
    ubcyt avecblp
    http://jogdqmbenp.com
    sqsqk nrwmhqf
    http://sulnhsockttq.com
    bpcpwtl qnxxxup
    http://klldiccwgh.com
    afpjsuo grjbp
    http://dnqgskwn.com

    • 0
    • 0
    • 0 Deem this to be "Fake News"