iBankCoin
Recovering Large Cap Growth PM. How I invest my own money is nothing like how I had to play the insane benchmark game.
Joined May 7, 2014
165 Blog Posts

PIMCO, JANUS and Parabolic Structures

It is extremely ironic that Bill Gross is going to Janus.  In the DOT.COM bubble Janus was the poster child of Technology Growth stocks on steroids.  The assets of the company went from $50 billion in 1996 to $250 billion in 1999.  A 5 bagger in asset growth in 3 years.  Pimco’s asset growth went from $700 billion in 2008 to about $2 trillion in 2012.  Almost a 3 bagger in  asset growth in 4 years.  Both of their asset growth graphs look like the following:

This is what is known as a parabolic structure.  It is where price and time accelerate and the trend eventually has a blow off top and then price and time begin to commence down the other side of the slope and retrace much of the gains from the beginning of the move.    Janus lost about 50% of their assets by the time 2002 rolled around.  PIMCO is going to lose about $1 trillion in AUM.  Despite Bill’s departure the demise of PIMCO was already baked into the cake from their parabolic growth phase.  All parabolic structures eventually collapse and retrace their gains.  Bill’s departure will only accelerate the outflows in time hence I predict that PIMCO loses $1 trillion AUM in 1.5 to 2 years.  Janus and now PIMCO were the victims of momentum chasing top ticking asset allocators.  This represented 2x growth in assets over the last year or two for both firms in the blow off top phase.  The money comes in so fast that both firms ended up making the markets in their respective asset classes.  Performance is boosted by the self fulfilling prophecy of buying your book every day.  And then one day the flows stop.  They exhaust themselves.  Then performance begins to falter and the hot money flows begin to reverse.  What was once a virtuous cycle becomes a vicious cycle.  It does not help that the street sticks their proboscis into the victim and sucks as much blood out as they can.  The momentum money is really the problem because it is dumb and impatient.  They can’t handle under performance.  They run and they run very fast.  The very success of both these firms is their eventual undoing.

The problem is only exacerbated by finger pointing and personnel changes which cause more outflows.  My advice to PIMCO would be to not blame anyone for performance due to the outflows and leave the team you have on the field for the next several years.

Why should equity investors give a damn about this:

1) Liquidity is a disaster in fixed income right now.  As PIMCO liquidates it may cause dislocations in credit markets which will have knock on effects in equities and preferred stocks.

2) We are likely peaking for the credit cycle which will make the PIMCO liquidation very sloppy and disruptive to both already stressed debt and equity markets.  If you own levered companies that rely on the credit markets now would be a good time to blow them out of your portfolio.

3) The S&P, DOW, Nasdaq have all gone parabolic due to QE1, 2 and 3 which is ending in four weeks.  All parabolic structures end badly.

Bottom Line:  The largest fixed income asset manager in the world is going to liquidate $1 trillion over the next 18 to 24 months right as the street has all but turned out the lights on their fixed income desks due to Dodd/Frank.  In addition credit markets have likely peaked.  If you don’t think equities will be affected you are sorely mistaken.

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20 comments

  1. Operator

    Barney Frank should be ashamed.

    “It’s the most perect storm for equities I’ve ever seen.”

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  2. BlueStar: Contrarian Investor
    BlueStar: Contrarian Investor

    Operator,

    Did Barney Frank and Jimmy Saville ever hang out?

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  3. matt_bear

    What’s going to cause this trillion dollar loss?

    Customers of pimco withdrawing their money? Transfering over to Janus? Can’t you just have the assets transferred without a sell in the open market?

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  4. BlueStar: Contrarian Investor
    BlueStar: Contrarian Investor

    matt_bear,

    Again matt. All Parabolic structures end. That is just a fact of nature. They lost $10 billion over the weekend. Do the math on that if that pace holds up. I said nothing about janus getting flows. Yes they can do a transfer of assets which then get sold by new manger to buy what he likes. Trust me Matt I know of what I speak. Plus the credit cycle is peaking.

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  5. Trading_Nymph

    Junk Stuff is breaking support levels very fast over the last week. Love Your Stuff Blue, FWIW.

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  6. Robster Man

    Hi Blue, how would you play the possible pimco downfall?

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  7. Cworsf

    Fixed income will flow to equities.

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  8. BlueStar: Contrarian Investor
    BlueStar: Contrarian Investor

    Robster Man,

    Hard to say. Look to short junk bomd ETF’s on a pop. Take a lkook at BOND which is the PIMCO Total Return ETF.

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  9. BlueStar: Contrarian Investor
    BlueStar: Contrarian Investor

    Cworsf,

    You do realize the cyclical bull in equities has been a credit induced orgy. Fixed income is the tail that wags the equity dog.

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  10. BlueStar: Contrarian Investor
    BlueStar: Contrarian Investor

    Robster Man,

    I think Allianz the parent company of PIMCO is a short as well.

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  11. And its gone!

    Blue..Do you think QE reduction will be the straw that breaks the stock market back?

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  12. juice

    you’ll love this Bluestar .. world debt to GDP 212%

    http://rt.com/business/191716-record-world-deb-crisis/

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  13. BlueStar: Contrarian Investor
    BlueStar: Contrarian Investor

    And its gone!,

    Yes

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  14. BlueStar: Contrarian Investor
    BlueStar: Contrarian Investor

    juice,

    The definition of Insanity: ” Doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result!”

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  15. TJWP

    My only complaint is you don’t post more haha. Hope you are settled after the moves and didn’t suffer much during the weather.

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  16. gorby

    Geat piece

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  17. gorby

    Sorry- Great piece

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  18. bill

    Bluestar,

    Where do you go long for a counter trend play. 1890/1904 spx or higher. How long is your call options on counter play. Do you exit all puts when you go long or keep it alive if there is no second chance.

    Bill

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  19. BlueStar: Contrarian Investor
    BlueStar: Contrarian Investor

    Bill,

    Still holding. On a plane right now headed back to Maui. I am running from Ebola.

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  20. BlueStar: Contrarian Investor
    BlueStar: Contrarian Investor

    bill,

    I just arrived. Ebola followed me to Hawaii. I am not sure what I am going to do yet. I will shorten to November from December. Don’t know if I will exit completely. I have a high class problem here.

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