Apologies for this late quick note, but I just spent the good part of a seventh circle of hellish evening with a window replacement salesman who could’ve given Shelley Levine of Glengarry Glen Ross fame a run for his money.
This poor schlub… he so wanted the sale…
But I was sniffy and aloof, understanding yet askance, nodding but nodding off.
I sell large things for a living you see, while not entertaining you all with picks of rising value.
So I felt bad. A little. But was more peeved at the Mrs. Jake for setting up such a fiasco after I had spent the whole day in meetings, the last of which was sprung on me late and took me to 7:30 in the evening.
She didn’t know, of course, and I didn’t remember our “date,” so it was a sour-faced revelation for us all when I arrived home to see Mr. Steak Knives sitting at my kitchen table, readying to parlay.
After much education on triple pane argon and krypton gas filled what-you-may-have-its, I sent him away with no agreement, despite his imprecations of “promotional sale” and his obsequious (and transparent) appeals to the “showcase quality” of our home (I knew better of course).
I did promise to do some due diligence however, and so I put it to the audience: Have any of you any experience with this product? I won’t name the brand as I don’t want to bias things… but he was selling triple pane insulated “top of the line” replacement windows that could stop Superman in his tracks due to their krypton gas quotient.
Your recommendations or “insider knowledge” from past summer construction jobs are much appreciated.
As for tonight’s “study,” I leave you with my “big picture” thesis of the Exxon Mobil Corporation [[XOM]] symmetrical triangle forming here, which looks to be finishing by November 24th, at the latest. I really think this chart will forecast the market… as XOM and the earl based commodities go, so goes the market — taurine or ursine.
God bless you and your set of promotional steak knives, one and all.
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Addendum — watch also for [[PTM]] tomorrow. Platinum is heating up along with its more popular brothers. Diana Shipping Inc. [[DSX]] also looks nice again. Is it transporting silver ingots?
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” “Pa-TEL?” [‘Gint’?] Fuck you. Fucking Shiva handed this guy a million dollars, told him “Sign the deal!” he wouldn’t sign. And the god Vishnu too, into the bargain. Fuck you, John! You know your business, I know mine. Your business is being an asshole. I find out whose fucking cousin you are, I’m going to go to him and figure out a way to have your ass – fuck you! ”
and my fav:
“You ever take a dump made you feel like you’d just slept for twelve hours? ”
-Ricky Roma
Nice post, Jake. I just bought 11 windows for my flip house (details in the PPT forum). I am no expert, but it seems like I have bought a lot of windows in the past 4 years.
Here’s the deal – good quality solid vinyl windows with low-e treatment that will capture the federal energy tax credit averaged me about $450/ea installed. This was from a father/son company that does siding and windows, who work on referrals only. The windows were manufactured by Alside and seem to be good quality.
I did the small basement window installs on the flip house myself, for about $100 each (my contractor wanted $200 each). Same contractor wanted $1200 to replace a sliding patio door with a double-french-door – I was able to source the same component for under $400 at Home Depot and install myself in half a day.
Several years ago, I had 3 double-hung windows put in my rental condo (restrictive HOA limited my choices), for about $333 each.
Last year I bought a flip house that was advertised as ‘needing $22k in window replacements’. 13 windows had moisture between the panes. I was able to replace the glass units (IGU’s) rather than the whole window for about $100 each, installed.
A less-resourceful family member paid nearly $1200 per window for her townhouse, for lesser quality, from the typical high-pressure salesman (think Champion).
Triple-pane windows are worth the extra money only if you require noise reduction.
Thanks Howie, that’s helpful.
This guy was making the claim that the energy savings from the triple panes would be about 40%. You think its no different with the dubs?
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There are a lot of things to consider. For example, a double-pane with argon fill and a Low-E2 coating will outperform a triple-pane with air fill and no coatings. The Low-E2 coatings reduce the amount of visible light transmission so your house might be a bit darker.
I checked prices of triple-pane windows, and they are less of a premium than I expected. Might be well worth it if you live in a cold climate. You won’t save anywhere near 40% on your heating bill but your house will definitely be more comfortable.
For my flip house, I picked the most basic window and added the low-E coating and argon fill. The options added $175 to a $3k bill, and I can market the place as an ‘energy efficient’ home – lol.
Cash-n-Guns & Kel are spot-on with their comments.
We used Anderson windows – double pane, argon filled. I recall they were in the $250ish range, maybe higher installed. We are very happy with the results. The installation team was awesome – top quality work.
Keep in mind that the energy savings is only measuring the window itself not the house and it assumes a good installation. A bad installation can void any savings the windows offer.
lots of brands…Duramade is one with high energy savings claims…the showcase thing is sooo classic old…you can bargain hard on the numbers..and make sure they do the install and dont sub it out…my father many moons ago..was a custom builder…take at least 35% off the price qouted for the high end windows..(they do work) if you plan on staying in your home long term.
take at least 35% off the price qouted for the high end windows..(they do work)
They claim this is the “deep discounted price” — came out to a little more than $550 a window (some of my windows are oversized floor to ceiling type deals) fully installed, with a BBB #1 rated installer, bonded, etc.
You think I can shave more?
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$550 per? That’s a fooking ripoff… especially these days…Get quotes from 3 local guys and then play them off each other….Demand written estimates and then fax them over to the competition – “Can you beat this, mother fucker?!?!?”
Eventually, they’ll start giving up and not calling back and THAT’s when you know the true price.
Sheeeeyit, if you’re not going to be in the house that long, get the # 7 most expensive (on a scale from 1-10) at lowes and hire a local handyman w/experience putting in windows…prolly do it for less than $250 per installed…- believe you me, they have ALL sizes but may take a little longer as they’d special order
Out of my gold positions, into TBT @42.74. Rates can’t stay down this low for long. Target for TBT ~$60.00
Don’t be so hasty, hobbit.
Agreud that TBT is tasty here.
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The TBT was too tempting, and I only had room for a limited amount of hedges. Soooo, I sold euphoria, and bought fear (well sort of). BTW thanks. EGO and NGD were both your ideas. This place cranks out so many good ideas, I have sometimes trouble managing the big picture.
Jake
1. Good windows cost more.
2. You can buy the BEST windows available, but if they’re installed incorrectly you will not get the benefits thereof, and they could leak.
3. Contrarily, you can use a lower end product and with proper installation still get average results. Obvious point being, proper installation is EXTREMELY important.
2. Be wary of “replacement window” salespeople in general.
3. Your location plays a big part in what product you should purchase.
4. A legitimate (with references that he can give you in a moments notice), licensed (local to your area) contractor will probably give you the best advice.
5. It almost always best to go with a local firm rather than a “national replacement window” manufacturer. It has much to do about accountability.
6. Firms that use the tag words such as “deep discounted” are to be questioned. You’re better off paying a little more for a qualified, professional company that has the experience and history of backing up the products they install and their workmanship.
E-mail me if you have any further questions.
best wishes/ToddinFL
Would like to follow up w. you … could you send me an email at [email protected]
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Treu, but windows aren’t that tough – especially on your house as it was built more recently…the old ones are the problems…
Ask the guy out in Cali
It seems that the days of naked shorting are numbered: I think I will write a morally poignant children’s story about it for my son, where at the end of the tale everyone finally admits that the ‘Emperor has no Gold’.
Hehe, nice attempt by Nue Yohk to squish the POG this morning. Thankfully, it appears that the Chinese (or them AND everyone else) are burning the candle at both ends.
I really think the tiger they thought they had by the tail is turning around and biting them (NY) in the face.
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Haha! Nice imagery. May I add it to the storyline?
Sure, I’m all about the storyline.
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Hey uncle Jake could you do a nice little TA review (a la CA) of the Junior miners either here or PPT with Fibbonacci so we can have a bit more detailed entry/exit points for most of us who were not as loaded on the Jacksonians (yeah yeah I know should have listened and paid attention and got earlier on), Thanks in advance.
Do you have specific names in mind?
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The usual suspects (CDE,PAAS,IAG,SSRI,SLW,EKX,YC,HL,NG,etc) honestly whatever you care to do would be welcomed I really wanted to hear your comments(a fresh pair of eyes instead of mine). I sold my AUY and EGO positions (including mty TCK YES I KNOW i should have learned never to sell it LOL ) but honestly was following your other superstars IAG,CDE,SIRI,PAAS,SLW,EKX during last pullback but missed on the entry and have been watching the rally in tears not wanting to jinx it and chase just to end up buying the top. Thanks again.
I’ll see what the best of those is looking like and throw up some charts tonight.
Seriously, though, I wasn’t fucking around when I said this is a “buy and hold the hell on” environment.
There will be drawdowns, but this is a bull C wave we’re in now. Not worth getting shaken out.
Trim or sell calls.
ANV and AUY are looking very good right now, fwiw.
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BTW — what happened to your name?
_
Triple pane = waste of money, stick with double.
Argon filled=good, go with that.
Low E = very desirable, and a code requirement in many localities.
Ask to see the “Confidential Dealer Catalog” price. It usually says something on the cover like “for Contractor Use Only” or “Do Not Show To Customer”. I used to sell & install a shitload of vinyl replacements. I’d show the prospective customer the “Confidential” price like I was giving them some secret PPT-type info, and offer to install the window for that price plus $40 each labor. What I didn’t tell them, is that my cost was only 37% of the so-called “Confidential” price.
FWIW, I didn’t usually work on mansions or ritzy homes, but middle-class or rental properties. I mostly installed National Vinyl brand windows on those places, and Harvey or Andersen on nicer homes.
I like your story a lot. I’m a new, young guy to the windows sales business, and I’d like to speak with you more about this. Like you, I really have that burning desire to be successful.
I know how busy you must be, but if there is any way you could possibly arrange to talk with me for a few minutes, you could do a lot of good. You know how much this same advice would have meant to you when you were trying to get started, and from what I’ve read, I don’t know of anyone who could help me more than you.
Thanks =]
I got cute today and sold half my position…Gary Savage would not be impressed.
Second place is a set of steak knives.
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At least I avoided third place…
I’m waiting for your analysis of some of the junior burritos. I would love to get your input on going full on Gary Savage mode at this point. His advice to me was to jump in with 2 feet, grab a position and hold on for the ride accepting there will be scary times when we may massively correct. He also said he was 100% invested in the miners with a small piece in physical and a small play on UNG.
Do I just avoid the big guys and focus on the juniors and medium sized players? Don’t you think there will be some small dips to get in on this drive up? Gary thinks even if the market has a massive correction, gold and the miners will decouple from the overall market and blaze a trail up of their own. I’m not sure I’m quite on board with that part of the theory at this point. So, my question to you would be if you were just getting started on investing in these miners, what would the portfolio look like? (Specific companies if you will…Give me a generic blue print.)
Have you looked at the Jacksons? They’re a good start…. if you go back a bit, I’ve put them up a number of times in table format.
I will likely do so again this weekend, as it’s been a while since I updated… we are at 42% since May 1st, fwiw.
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Depending on the state you live in determines the Energy Savings requirements based on the U-factor. Personally, if it were me and I was looking to install or replace existing windows, I wouldn’t settle for anything less than a .23 -.28 U-factor. Low E comes in various degrees as well but it all works the same. What is important here is to make sure both the inside and outside pane have it installed. Low E is basically like a mirror that reflects the outside stuff from getting in, and the inside stuff from getting out. Noise is basically eliminated via the argon or krypton gas. Both are heavier than air, therefore, reducing the noise factor. Fiberglass will give you better insulation factors than vinyl, this is what I would look for. There are some “national” companies out there that use very inadequate products at a cost greater than the same like, kind, and quality available at your local HD or LOW’s. I could go on and on but other advice already given is very valid.
NHH
Thanks for your input, nonetheless. If anyone thinks one brand stands head and shoulders over the others on price and quality, I’d be interested to know.
Then I’ll get off this topic. 😉
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Fiberglass: Inline *Canadian* Marvin Milgard (Fiberglass can be painted)
Vinyl: Jeld-Wen, Simonton, Wellington, Marvin, Andersen, Thermal Industries (Most are standard and only in white or a Sand / Almond / Tan Some will do a custom color if you are willing to pay for and wait for the word “Custom”.
Ranked in the order I would make my choices. Do research on your installer. Don’t fall for the “only 3% of the contractors in the U.S. qualify” line. Verify contractor’s license numbers, BBB ratings, and make sure they are insured to an amount suitable for you and your family. They should also carry Worker’s Compensation Insurance regardless. God forbid one gets hurt while working on your home and isn’t. I am sure you know the importance of lien waivers, be sure this is part of your contract as well. Be sure to get one when the job is completed. Also be aware and ask questions about how they intend to insulate and seal around the window(s) being replaced. A new window means nothing if there are other ways for air infilitration.
Thanks No Horns, I’ve heard from a lot of people that installation makes or breaks the deal.
You do not mention Pella, Shuco (sp?), Alside, Okna, Champion, Gorell and a number of others… is that because they suck?
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Sorry, I let Pella slip my mind. Quality window, but ranked after Marvin in my book. The rest fall in the latter of categories you mentioned. Most of what I have told you is based on both sales, and installation of above products. I used to be a GC before a job site accident told me to get out while I still have all my digits and limbs. By the way, you should see if “Green” gets you anywhere in your state above and beyond the energy credit.
Just noticed the ad in upper right of page, how appropriate lol
Throwing myself on my spear tonight. HEB up 25% AH on some kind of “pre” news that the CEO is going to be announcing something tomorrow about their Alferon (Inferon) oral product on BioMedReports.
I’ve looked around and I’ve no idea what that’s about. This (old) drug has been proposed by HEB to be an oral supplement to current vaccines that might increase their effectiveness. I can’t believe there’s been any time to get real results out there, but who knows. The announcement has caused a big pop this evening.
In the tradition of iBC candor, I trashed HEB last night before a big runup. So whether ultimately right, where it counts – on the trading side – I’m eating a big plate of crow, and dearly hope I my piece didn’t shake anyone out.
No worries, I was so busy today I only sold a little ABK I’d been meaning to get rid of.
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Glad about that, even though I doubted you’d have a big stake in such volatiles. My sense is this “pre” news is a pump on the part of the CEO, I’m just not seeing meaningful stuff here to be frank. I’ll be eyeing it tomorrow. I suspect a rollercoaster and I’m very curious where it will end up on the tracks.
On the window side you got some real solid advice from ToddinFL. Floridians and Mainers alike take their windows seriously. We went with Paradigm, a very well established and respected local company (www.paradigmwindows.com), and their recommended installer. There might be a similar local company and product where you are. Being in our small community means there’s no place to hide crap product or work, the dynamic works in our favor often here. Paradigm sells in most of the NE I believe.
Mein gott, there must be a million manufacturers… seriously, I’m up to about thirty names I’ve heard already….
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Most folks that don’t take the kind of time you’re putting in, just get the standard type stuff, Pella or something similar out of home depot. The good and bad of it might be that since they sell everywhere, anyone installs them – idiots included – which is where most of the problems are. With local products and community businesses here there’s a strong incentive to treat people right.
We always go local if we can, and not just because it’s politically correct. It happens to work out for windows here in southern maine.
Here ya go … CEO William Carter has reportedly given some “important news” about the regulatory status of its long-delayed chronic fatigue syndrome drug Ampligen to BioMedReports that is to be released during trading tomorrow.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10609175/1/hemispherx-ceo-spills-ampligen-beans-to-stock-cheerleader-biobuzz.html
Yeah, I saw that. AF from the street hates this company. I don’t share his bias, just looking for content and context, and don’t see it yet. Maybe they’ve got one of their foreign studies teed up with some positive results?
That after / pre hours trading in HEB is crazy. I can’t believe the CEO would make a major, FDA type announcement to one online site, maybe it’s just good news lite. My guess would be anything less than major news wouldn’t keep the stock elevated.
Given what I’ve read in some blogs, this is one emotional powder keg stock. Might be good for a day trader scalp, sell before the news kind of thing?
HEB CEO said nothing significant, down 3.5% vs up as much as 26% AH. Lesson to be learned there for sure.
Todd — I replied with a pretty lengthy email.
thanks!
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I just came across this story, Gold is Still a Lousy Investment on the Wall Street Journal’s Website on October 4th:
Dear Mr. Kansas,
Hahahahaha! (Wipes tear from eye), hahaha! Please, stop. No seriously, you’re killing me.(takes deep breath…exhales)
Perhaps it is. But it sure is a fantastic way to preserve wealth, and has been for thousands (count ’em: thousands) of years. Name me a single paper promise that has lasted that long. Heh, I guess 16% average return over the last ten years isn’t good enough for a BSD like yourself. Good luck with your fiat currencies! Now there lies an “alchemist’s mixture of fundamentals and fantasy”, truly Area 51 type stuff. Careful, too much ‘Hocus-Pocus’, a dash over on the ‘abracadabra’, and POOF: you’re Zimbabwe!
Pretty amazing isn’t it?
I guess we’re still good to go while articles like this are making the rounds.
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Oh shit
The words ring true, but the source has left me a touch queasy. It’s like suddenly discovering that I somehow have common ground with an opinion expressed on the O’Reilly Factor. (FTR: To date, that has NEVER happened.)
Pah, every one-in-a-thousand interviews even these guys have to hit near the mark, I suppose.
FOX Business != FOX News.
That being said, they (Business) have one of the UGLIEST websites in the entire financial web-o-sphere. I know we all love gold, but it does not make for a good primary color on your website!
Picked up some more SPDE at 4.29, now a 3/4 position for a long term hold – I like this twofer – biotech and DRAM storage technology. Very thinly traded microcap, but has had massive moves in the recent past.
Great Post!
I think you can get some for about $189
My wife set up an appointment Kirby Vacuums about 20 years ago……this guy was unreal– pouring shit out and than vacuuming it up …right when he went in for the kill– my 2 year old came down and blew chunks all over the floor. Funniest thing ever.. I told the guy to beat it. Should’ve made him clean it up.
Now that’s funny!
Very coincidental. We got a new dog recently… still acclimating to the house and all (it was a rescue). This guy was on his second hour (deep into it), and the dog came up to my wifes feet, so she picked it up (it’s a mini-schnoodle) and it promptly ralphed on the guy’s shoes.
We thought it maybe a sign.
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Didn’t think that in the internet age these guys (door-to-door salesmen) still existed (except for CutCo college kids)!!
The “credulous housewife” is still an enticing target, apparently — just like in Glengarry Glen Ross.
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Jake – Are they vinyl or wood frame? My experience is that any double glass, argon filled window is fine. If you need some designer bullshit, you are on your own.
THE INSTALL is what matters most. We had our generic Home Depot vinyl windows (double pane, argon filled, UV coated) redone by the Amish. OMG! Didn’t just pop em in and cover em up. Reframed the window, hand insulated the gaps, wrapped the exterior in custom aluminum. Really well done.
They did my roof too. Every nail hit the stud. A thing of beauty and proving that work can be worship. I digress.
My house is TIGHT AS A SNARE DRUM. Why I am using ALL CAPS, I do not know. But I am. Deal with it.
Install over bullshit window technology.
Oh, I think I spent $200 per window plus $100 per for install plus materials.
I have a modest ranch. 17 windows I think. Maybe $5k total.
Pella/Anderson are lovely and high quality, and worthy of a high end home. The brand carries some cache for resale. But functionally, no better than the rest.
I’m sure you can afford whatever you want, but I’d only do a high end window if I was in some Belle Meade estate thing. Dig? Then again, I’m the guy who wears clothes from Goodwill.
How did you keep the Amish horses from shitting on your lawn?
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DO NOT GET DO BUSINESS WITH DURAMADE WINDOWS.
THEY ARE STRAIGHT CROOKS, YOU WILL REGRET IT.
THEY HAVE 25 BBB COMPLAINTS!
fyi.IF, anyone in chicago even thinks about getting windows from feldco.YOU ARE ABSOLUTEY FUCKING INSANE AND DESERVE TO GET FUCKED RIGHT UP THE ASS. heres a company that advertises on tv all the time they are the fucking worst windows in the entire fucking world. i needed to get 54 windows for a 6 flat all the companies that do strictly commercial work, all came in at 10 k, and had great product,for shits and giggles the owner wanted to get an estimate from them against my better judgement, this fucking used car salesman pulled out the most shitfaced fucking window i ever saw. his estimate, 22,335. i laughed in his face,he said why are you laughing. i said ya wanna know why, he said yea,i said you know such and such company, he said oh yea, they only do commercial work, i said in this economy they wanted my business, and oh, by the way,you came in over 10k what they wanted to do the job 4, ,and have a hell of alot better product,then i showed him the way out..buying product is like anything else, due dilligence, we do it on stocks, whats the difference in something thats supposed to last a lifetime……. i do interior rehabs, have tools will travel.historic restorations are my specialty
jake, all that gas shit in a double pane window is nice,up until there is a breach,which normally happens after awhile,and have you ever seen someones windows that have that look of fog inside them,thats because the gas leaked out from shit seals around the sash itself,and you can never get rid of that cloudy look in the window. a mere double pane will suffice, if ANYONE tells you,that you will save 40% in bills from heat.show them to the door. there are literally thousands of windows on the market some 139 dollar windows i’ve seen, blow the doors off some of the more so-called big time ones.even a jeld-wen window blows the doors off some that i’ve seen.
They ripped me off on my paycheck.
Was told to only market people that were not so bright. They could not sell that bill pof goods called TARGET MARKET to people that just steped off the truck. Exact words out of Gary Dalia’s mouth. I could write a book about how much we were told to lie to customers.
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In 2008 and 2009, with the downturn in the housing market, The Home Depot announced the layoff of several thousand associates, as well as the closing of 54 stores nationwide, including the entire EXPO Design Center chain….,-
http://healthmedicinebook.com
With kind thoughts