Be sure to read The Important Matter of Surge Protection for the necessary background information pertaining to this post…
Journey Through Multiple Layers of Customer Service Hell…
So when we left off, I had filed a damage claim with Comcast, on the evening of June 5th. The customer representative, Richey, the guy with a strong Puerto Rican accent, assured me I would receive a call from Comcast on Monday. Well Monday came and went, and I did not receive a call. I called Comcast back on Monday evening and spoke with Samantha. Her customer service skills were excellent, which was valuable since she told me that Richey never filed the damage claim. Samantha took very good notes and filed a claim for me. She read it back to me, and it was very accurate. After giving me a reference number for my claim, she assured me that someone would call me on Tuesday.
Tuesday came and went, and I received no phone call from Comcast. Today, (Wednesday, June 8th) I called Comcast at approximately 9:30 a.m. I spoke to a “new” (his words) representative who took two forevers to handle my issue. He must have been consulting the trainee manual or speaking with supervisors because I was on hold for a long, long time. Upon his return, he informed me that he was putting an alert in the system and that someone would call me back within 2 hours. At 1:30 p.m. I had received no call from Comcast, so I called back and got a more experienced representative who told me the same story as the first: “I’m putting in an alert to the supervisors. This will get their attention and someone should call you back within 2 hours.” I left work at 5:00 p.m. and had not received a call. Every time we spoke I was giving the reps my work number.
I got home and almost immediately called Comcast. This time I chose the selection for I Want To Disconnect My Service. I was connected, (much more quickly this time) with Ernest. His company abbreviation is SLV1AV. I told Ernest that I wanted to disconnect my service since Comcast refused to call me back. Ernest explained “an email” had been sent at 5:00 p.m. I have no idea who sent the email or what it was about, but Ernest seemed to believe it was important. He asked again what the problem was, and I again explained that Comcast’s negligence had resulted in my T.V. being ruined. I explained this in detail, and included anecdotes about other households in the neighborhood that lost TVs. I made sure to tell him that when my wife went to pick up the new cable box at the Comcast office that there was a lady there who had lost 3 TVs, all expensive. She was in tears. There were two other customers with similar stories. Since the line was stretching out of the building (with each customer returning a Comcast set-top box), there may have been more that lost TVs. Ernest did not remark on this. He instead explained that within 48 hours, “inspectors” would come out to my house. He said he was including “a tickler” (his dumb words, not mine) in my file to remind him to call me around 3:00 p.m. on Friday to make sure the inspectors had actually stopped by my house.
Let’s Examine Comcast’s Negligence
On Monday morning (June 6th), I went outside and took photos of Comcast’s grounding box. I was pretty sure there would be no grounding wire. I was wrong.
Click on the photos to enlarge…
Although there was a grounding wire, I was positive that there was a problem somewhere. Unless your house gets hit directly by lightening, there is no way a surge can enter your home via your CATV cable, blowing out the cable box and the TV, if the cable is properly grounded.
On Monday I had no way to know that Comcast would avoid my damage claim, so I did not take any more pictures. Today, when Comcast said they would send out the inspectors, I knew I had to get under the house to ascertain just exactly what their installers did wrong.
Detour Into National Electrical Codes…
Codes for installation of grounds are notoriously complex and confusing. I will try to keep it simple. Below is the general code for grounding communications equipment:
Telecommunications systems [800-40(b)], antennas and lead-in cables [810-21(f)], CATV [820-40(b)], and network-powered broadband communications systems [830-40(b)] must all be bonded to one of the following locations:
1. Building or structure grounding electrode system as described in Section 250-50.2. Interior metal water pipe meeting the requirements of Section 250-104(a). The limitation of 5 feet in Section 250-50 does not apply.3. Metal service raceway.4. Service equipment enclosure.5. Building or structure grounding electrode conductor.6. Metal enclosure enclosing the building or structure grounding electrode conductor.7. Accessible bonding means such as six inches of No. 6 copper conductor connected to the service equipment or raceway [250-92(b)].
- A metal underground water pipe (10’ in the earth or longer) can only be considered as a grounding electrode for the first 5 ft. of its length within the building. Art. 250.52(A)(1).
- A non-metallic underground water pipe is not a grounding electrode and the interior metal water piping that it supplies is not a grounding electrode and cannot be used as a means to connect other grounding electrodes together. However, this interior metal water piping must be bonded to the service in a manner specified in Art. 250.104(A).
Okay, in layman’s terms, if you have a metal water pipe that has 10 feet or more of its length buried in the earth, it can be used as a ground. For CATV, the copper wire from the grounding block DOES NOT need to connect to the metal water pipe within 5 ft. of its length within the building. If water is brought into your house via a plastic pipe, your interior copper pipes cannot be used as a ground.
Back to Comcast’s Negligence…
So let’s take a look under my house to see if Comcast met the National Electrical Codes.
So far, everything looks good. The ground wire is attached to the copper water pipe. Lets look at another angle.
Again, we see the ground wire clamped to the copper pipe. Unfortunately, had the installer looked down about 5 feet ahead, he would have seen this:
Note what is emerging from the ground. Also note how close the existing ground connection is to where the blue plastic water pipe comes out of the ground.
Now let’s look at the big picture:
Obviously, Comcast has not connected the ground to metal piping that is buried underground for at least 10 feet. What exactly is being used to ground my CATV/Broadband?
Nothing like an old, dry-rotted garden hose to conduct electricity.
What Will the Comcast Inspectors Determine?
I am not an electrician. Perhaps there is something I have missed. Perhaps I have misunderstood the electrical code. Assuming I am correct, will Comcast reimburse me for the damage this caused to my television? Look for an update on Friday, June 10th.
[polldaddy poll=5126407]
This Woodshedder v. Comcast dispute is, undoubtedly, the shot across the bow that will mark the start of The Civil War, Part II. Ken Burns is already making a documentary based on this post.
Maybe you should make it a class action and encompass your TV-less neighbors as a sign of goodwill and strength in numbers to help Comcast make a decisive & equitable determination … otherwise see if TC is available.
I thought about that. If the TVs were not hooked to the box via HDMI, then likely only Comcast’s box got fried. For some reason, per the local TV repair expert, Comcast’s boxes are allowing the surge to exit via their HDMI output. The bad thing about this is it means pretty much only the newest TVs are getting fried.
If Comcast is unreasonable, I will simply send out a message to all 550 of my neighbors via the neighborhood’s Constant Contact emailer. How many had their boxes and/or TVs fried?
These days I’d be willing to bet every household has at least one HDTV and that 90% of those are connected with the HDMI connection … they should bite the bullet on this and retrain their installers but if they’re lucky they contracted that service to another company and can subrogate the loss against the installers insurer. GL
Tea, the problem is that grounding is even more complicated than what I covered here. In fact, you CAN run a wire to metal pipes that are NOT an electrode (i.e. not buried 10 feet at least into the ground) IF your interior copper pipes are bonded AND you install a separate grounding rod. That is a lot for average homeowner to wrap his head around. In my case, there is no grounding rod, either.
They must have an installer document that requires some sort of checkoff and signiture that he followed basic rules for the install … you may even have a copy if you keep their paperwork but if not should request a copy.
Comcast would be well-advised to see what became of Dennis Kneale’s career on CNBC after he had The Woodshedder on his show.
Wood, were you really on CNBC with Kneale or are you just goofing?
Well, I wrote a blog post about Kneale, and he took excerpts of it and responded to it on his show. Surely there is a video clip of it around here somewhere. Wait, here it is. It is a must watch.
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=1181729017
Seriously funny stuff!
Wow. That is funny! Congrats!
Sue them
and don’t forget to add “loss of consortium” & “pain and suffering” to the material loss as well.
shedder, what ever you do,DONT CANCEL THE SERVICE. when att u-verse hooked up their stuff to our 5 year old trinatron the exact same thing happened. first, let me say,doesnt it strike you,that att and comcast already have in place an insurance for this very thing. we had a “surge” just like you describe,but ours was in the style of a huge pop and crack sound that rendered the tube in a green color,the sound was messed up and every channel came in a green heavy chrome color like some one screwed with the color. we went through the same thing they came out three different times to redo all the wiring from the install,while each installer talked smack about the prior installer each time one came….nothing worked. so she gets on the phone to att,mind you at this point one month went by. so now the real annoyance was coming. on the phone again.so now they issue us a insurance type claim,so they look up a 42″ sony,she says thats a five tear old tee vee and is not on “our” list. we had to finally get with someone that you have to speak to every time you call to keep things moving along. so anyway, this “claim” company we had, wasnt even affilliated with att what so ever. what att u-verses’ power system did the same as yours. now here’s the fun part, we paid 1200 for the sony when we got it, they gave us 200, we told them unaceptable and go fuck yourself we will sue,this person had the authority to not only give us a paltry 200 bucks but gave us 9 months free of the entire programming that they have.ours is not set-up like cable att’s set-up is more sophisticated as it is done through phone lines and the infrastructure is under ground with the ocassional box coming up above ground on certain streets. what we found that was interesting strange to us, was that this woman from the claim company said, that they were set up”just for this problem. and we werent the first, the only thing she found strange, was that the tv was still able to turn back on,,,,,,,,,,your situation wont turn out like ours did,you prolly have a newer tv that has to be on their “list” and will prolly be compensated better than we were,,,,,,,but let me say, if you cancel on them you will definitly be using an attorney to get compensated, thats not cost efficent to say the least. my suggestion is to latch on to the same person all the way till you remove a new tv from the box, and whatever you do do not take no for an answer, you want full replacement of said tv,,,,,,and your gonna ask for 6 months free sub or a whole year……….about your ground wire,if yours is hooked up to the phone line, that box itself should be grounded,if its not get an electrician to give you the copper rod that is pounded into the ground for your grounding,usually your service box is connected to one,use it if you have one,,but i’ll tell ya shedder grounding had nothing to do with the box blowing up, and these installers,dude these cats really no shit. and some of these guys that have been with att for years they know less. that was the biggest joke,when the very last and 4th installer came out just to drop off the box for the set,the first thing this idiot did was say, i’m gonna rewire everything over again, well it was done all over again with a super and 2 installers i had to tell this guy in a nice way to leave,and all he was here for was to drop off a box…………….they are not going to tell the public that their systems, from time to time has the capabilty to destroy your set, stay with it till you get your new,then dump them.true story
Drummer, thanks for the good advice. I only threatened to cancel in order to get their attention and get to someone who actually had some authority.
Believe me, I can go around to my friend’s houses in the neighborhood and start taking pictures of the Comcast ground installs.
FIOS will not cause surges that blow out your TVs.
i think the whole thing was settled in a few months. wasnt fun watching a small portable. i just found it weird that they had already set up a company just for blown up tv’s,like they already knew about the “glitches”. i just didnt dig the pro rated deal for a tv that could have lasted for years. your gonna get another one,i’ll bet on it.
So far the folks who answered the polls don’t think I’ll get reimbursed! I hope you’re right!
tell them you are gonna rent a replacement and send them the bill until they repair/replace your set … they rent their equipment to you so “what goes around comes around” … also tell them that you got the HDTV set cause your an avid NBA/NHL fan and will miss the playoffs now as well as your fav BB team this summer if this goes on too long … ask if they need to use your calculator!
Here’s where I am on this. If you’re enjoying the challenge at some level, keep it going. Otherwise, hire a legal beagle and let him get back to you. I’ve played it both way and enjoyed it each time. Just don’t invest too much time now unless you really are enjoying it in some way.
Good advice Hawaii!
Woodshedder
I feel for you. I hate calling Comcast its very frustrating dealing with them. I hope this works out for you. I found a way to get around having to call Comcast. A few months ago i bought a new Apple macbook at Bestbuy. Comcast has reps in Bestbuy to sell internet and there various plans. I had just moved and needed cable. Needless to say Comcast didn’t show up when they were supposed too. Instead of dealing with the morons at 1-800 Comcast I called Johnny the Comcast rep at Bestbuy. He gave me all sorts of additional deals too. In fact I am gonna call him today. My 6 month deal expired it may be time to switch to Direct TV unless Johnny can give me an extension on my deal. You may wanna try dealing with a Comcast Rep at Bestbuy so you don’t have to deal with them on the phone. Whenever I call Comcast I am never happy with the result. Make sure you tax those fuckers for the aggravation. Tell them your originally from Dallas and your a lifelong Mavs fan blah blah blah.
Actually, once this situation is resolved you SHOULD cancel your service and switch to AT&T Uverse. Besides the fact that it is a better product, the few issues I’ve had with AT&T have been resolved quickly and in a way that actually makes me feel like they value my business.
Comcast should easily win every competition for worst customer service in the world. The comical part is that if you ask people who work for Comcast, they think they’re the best. They hire idiots and give them no authority or ability to solve problems.
Well said. Its amazing to me how badly this company is managed. The comcast service centers are proof of how bad there customer service is, the service reps sit behind bullet proof glass.
Just got a call from our local office. Gentleman I spoke with was very friendly and efficient. I’ve got a claim number for Liberty Mutual. I will need to call them in 24 hours to see what they are offering. Sounds like they are leaning towards paying the cost of repairs.
I do not believe our local office is aware of this post. It sounds like he was following up from my calls placed yesterday evening. I say this because when I asked if there were going to come out and fix the ground issue, he was not aware there was one. He is now sending someone out this afternoon to take a look.
I have to say, to be fair and honest, I have not had problems with their customer service, up until this incident.
so they use liberty mutual, good. and you also have a claim which is even better. you have to have a new tv.of which they WILL pay for. dont stop, follow all the way through. you will get a new one. first they ask what model you have, then they look it up, offer you whatever,then your gonna tell them NO, you want full replace ment, then they try to pro rate your tv and try giving you half of what you paid, or full replacement. i’m gonna take the complete contrarian of your pollsters votes.oh, ,and after they give you the coin, they are gonna want your old tv, so dont throw it out, another 2 goofs will come to pick that up. dont forget the 6 free months of service. in the grand scheme of things,its easier to give a several hundred dollars on a claim, because if you remain a customer,in a years time they will have their monies back, just by your sub…….
Apparently none of you guys live in NYC. Comcast is bad (used to have it in SF) but Time Warner is the worst. Not only does the service suck, but through the transitive property, I’m paying that asshole Dolan to fuck up the Knicks. Salt in the wounds. Nothing like a monopoly to get you to appreciate competition.
FIOS unavailable in Manhattan and can’t get DirecTV because of south-facing issues.
Good luck, Wood. I’d tell you how long it took me to get Time Warner to fix my problems but i don’t want to depress you.
But how the hell is Marc David’s No Bull Bodybuilding plan treating you? Were you in that program, you would not give a rat’s arse about your tele, and surely this market would be rising to the moon.
Crushed it!
Wood, I went in my basement and looked at my connection. My Comcast cable just comes up from the ground and goes into the side of the house with no grounding at all. Not even a junction box of any sort. But my neighborhood is all underground utilities with no telephone poles. Does your neighborhood have this also? I’m thinking that perhaps all-underground utilities negates the need for a grounding? Yes/No? The other end of my My Comcast cable comes up into a large box on the ground on the corner of my neighbor’s lawn.
Dave, I did a lot of reading and searching about how to ground CATV. From what I read, your installation is not up to code. My neighborhood is the same- all underground. Yours should enter a grounding box on the side of your house, like mine does in the first picture I posted.
They killed my TV too. They send a signal to terminate my service and killed my TV any advices ?